Don't worry. Version 4 will be a seperate app. It will not interfere with the current version 3.
Brainstorming about the version 4 user interface
peter Let’s talk about simplifying Layout on IPhone for easy use.
I like the fact all my on stage touch needs are at the bottom and I like the fact I can get to settings, playlists, history, song this is great , I don’t like the placement of edit functions and the loop section , I rather have the loop sections above the Stop button section and the edit functions not available till I ask for them as I don’t need them when performing , this is even more confusing as when you hit the edit button to left it changes this option completely
When I hit play , I would rather that the lyrics pop up as now but nothing changes in interface , the setting option remains at bottom the stop section remains and the loops section remain on top of that, so nothing jumps around the screen except you get your lyrics above, this greatly relaxes the user, if I want edit functions then I press edit and all my options are presented in one nice place most likely in my prep stage where I don’t need my lyrics or song selection,
The area next to stop button should be your mix , loop, volume , pitch , speed , Edit functions where you can choose what you prefer in which order except the edit function to be permanent on opposite side of stop button , this area does not change in any mode , here is what you get when you hit play example
Loops jump to the top , that’s very confusing and unnecessary also now if you change loops you cover your lyrics big no no, the whole interface changes and slaps you in the face , why ?
When it could just remain the same and show the lyrics above and all necessary buttons remain at the bottom so no need to block your lyrics a quick swipe to left or right gets you the songs or back to lyrics so you can select next song when convenient, but all your function buttons are always at the bottom and nothing changes no matter what.
That’s it for now my fingers are getting tired
peter
My opinion is based on successful experience with “DAW Cakewalk by BandLab”... - A symbiosis of the work of a mobile application and a large program for a computer.
- Stage Traxx 3 is a good and complete application.
- Stage Logic Traxx 4 - DAW with powerful instruments, vst, output of different parts to multiple monitors, video, support for Stage Traxx 3 symbiosis... Transfer an easy playlist version to the iPhone. Control a heavy version of your DAW using your iPhone...
*the latest iPads are already as powerful as Macbooks
Agree with most of what youve said. For me, I will never use this app on iphone. I dont know how many customers bought this that ever will but I dont think its high. This is really suited to ipad and mac or even pc. Lyric and chord display is king to most while performing.(hence my other request for pdf full cropping) I think asking for a compressor is asking to much and your getting into audio mixing which is accomplished many other ways and not what your app core is about. More tracks, easily identifying and marking regions and the ability to repeat them skip them or delete them would be a welcome addition. This is something the Prime app from Loop community does well.
Would love to have an easy global switch on/off of Tracks for all songs. Example, if the Drummer does not show up, I want to activate the drum track for all my songs. I know, I can do it with configuring the Multitrack Outputs to Disabled / Enabled. But that means I have to go into the configuration. Would be nice if there is a global setting like it is for the individual song.
I love my new association with Stagetraxx 3, I know things have to move on but hopefully ST3 will still be supported for some time yet.
The only addition I would love at the moment now that my BT midi and audio is working fine, is to be able to attach midi file to a song and have it play in sync with the audio track. That way automating effects, lighting and harmony voices to VL3. Don’t know how feasible it is but being able to prepare the audio and midi in a DAW and then import it into ST3 would be immense.
I believe this feature may exist in Band Helper but not sure if it is successful or not.
I depend on StageTraxx, and have used it for years. Here is my opinion based on hundreds and hundreds of professional experiences:
1) It doesn't need to run on an iphone. why? there's just to much visual content for that. I wouldn't waste my time on that market.
2) The LYRICS are job #1 They must be seen no matter what.
3) The audio is also essential: And the #1 problem with Uadio out live in this medium is VOLUME. I DREAM of a day that Stage Traxx has a maximizer and a seperate limiter/compressor for each song. One you can adjust and save for that song. And maybe a way to save playlists that contain those songs and different,seperate settings for the EQ and dynamics processors.
Currently using outside processors is a hassle..and I bought audiobus and outside vendors dynamic processors and it was never right. If its within StageTraxx..I know it will be right..and useful..because Peter Dikant doesn't fool around.
Think about it: the bells and whistles DONT MATTER in LIVE performance. What matters is the essentials: The Voice singing the right words. the music being balanced to that. all else is secondary.
Thank you Peter,
you do amazing good work. I am so grateful.
Thanks a lot for all the comments. Although I do not respond to every request, I make notes to evaluate what is possible and what not.
Unfortunately I am still quite occupied with fixes vor version 3 so progress on version 4 is rather slow. But nevertheless there is progress.
GtrGeorge 1) It doesn't need to run on an iphone. why? there's just to much visual content for that. I wouldn't waste my time on that market.
Hi George, I disagree with you in this to a point, yes iPhone is not ideal for professional users that need to see things easily, but iPhone has a great use for non professionals that just want a great player that stores their songs , with lyrics if they prefer, and if we are really desperate we could get away with using it as a backup device , there are a hell of a lot of non musicians out there that would love ST3 on iPhone if they knew about it then professional users The reason we, the pros know about ST3 is that we are desperately looking for a better and easier way to do things so we have stumbled on ST3 but if more people that want to simply control their music library discover this app they would definitely prefer this than the crap that’s given to us now.
The point I am making is ST3 has a much bigger market value to non professionals but it has been tailored for professionals as well, if you ignore the non professional users then you the professional user would be paying a much higher price for this software so iPhone users are very important indeed and it’s fantastic to have all 3 platforms included just don’t use the one that does not suit you.
I personally hardly ever use the iMac version as the iPad does everything I need easily including complex audio segment editing and lyric manipulation but I love the fact it’s there if ever I need it, my iPhone is always in perfect sync with my iPad ST3 and I love the fact whenever I go to a gig I also have my iPhone backup with me , it’s a great confidence booster and I do use it as a simple player whenever needed , I am not a professional musician but I run professionally .
It’s a credit to Peter to have all platforms supported as ST3 deserves it.
GtrGeorge Currently using outside processors is a hassle..and I bought audiobus and outside vendors dynamic processors and it was never right. If its within StageTraxx..I know it will be right..and useful
ST3 is a player not a DAW editor, why aren’t your tracks already packaged for perfect playback before loading them in to ST3 the player.
Once you expect all DAW like control ST3 becomes BLOATED, I want a perfect player not a mixture of all and nothing easy and simple, if you need these things you haven’t done your prep work correctly and patch fixing after is not the answer, it’s just a work around fix that really needs to be fixed where it’s broken.
Otherwise place a dedicated outboard device to fix anything that comes out of you ST3 program so you don’t need to spend the time in preparation.
A good sounding track should need no EQ or exciter / compressor once it leaves you DAW.
Damir
I understand your points, but I have recorded 11 hrs of backing tracks...over the past few years. Of course, certain mixes might be just a little bass heavy or maybe in a certain room..the high end is a but to much....hence my request. Even very well recorded music may need a small amount of fixing in a given environment. I play many different environment...its impractical to do mixes for specific rooms. And A hard limiter is not usually alot of CPU..and it could protect your PA in some instances. But hey, a boy can dream.
GtrGeorge thats why you have EQ tweak and volume per song if needed and a master EQ or volume incase your Pa is the problem and you can fine tune all your songs at once.
There is only so much you can expect from a program like ST3 which is designed for musicians that need a backing track with lyrics and chords but its designed mainly to be great from a replay perspective it is not meant to be a Great DAW as well.
Yes it can be improved a bit, like VU meters of output and possibly master plugins that totally control the output but if your material is mastered properly none of these matter , ST3 has pleanty of headroom to tweak your EQ as its 6db lower output allows for adding EQ without worrying you will hit clipping , so its up to all users to place decent material in to ST3 to get best results.
As they say Crap in = Crap out .
There is no magic wand to fix bad audio , but there is some help to tweak for bad PAs.
Cheers Damir
GtrGeorge I play many different environment...its impractical to do mixes for specific rooms. And A hard limiter is not usually alot of CPU..and it could protect your PA in some instances. But hey, a boy can dream.
Why a hard limiter? I actually want a wide dynamic range to maintain a live instrument sound so my backing has great dynamics so it sounds like a live performed instrument behind me, otherwise it sounds like a compressed recording and not natural.
I’ve read all the comments on here with great interest. Here’s my 10 cents worth.
I’ve been a user of Stage Traxx since the very early (and I mean early) days of v2. It has been and still is my professional singing centre piece and I would be lost without. I also can claim, along with a few other people on this thread, to be the instigator of many of the features we now take for granted on it and all thanks to Peter for patiently listening to my/our requests and suggestions.
On stage I need simplicity, few things to accidentally press to get into a strange menu or mode, my attention should be on the audience and my performance, not the tech. I spend hours setting up what I need before I go on stage so that I don’t need to do it on stage with all the inherent risks.
I use MIDI a lot for all sorts of things such as switching reverb and delays either as songs start/stop or at specific points in songs. The MIDI also controls my DMX lighting, transposition of keyboards and even sending keystrokes to a computer to change back projection slides.
Let’s cover the iPhone question first. My suggestion would be to create a separate app for the iPhone as a subset of the normal program. With a cut down interface compared to the normal but using the same database. Much of the functionality can be removed. I’ve only ever used it while busking and I don’t need my MIDI or customisable buttons etc for that. I just needed music and lyrics. The body of the software could remain essentially the same with compilational exceptions for the iPhone version. That way common ‘issues’ would be correct in one pass but the phone version would simply ignore what it doesn’t need. The big difference being the visual interface design.
On the main program I am very happy with most of the current layout and would, like many of the previous contributors, urge you to keep lyrics and song selection unobscured at all times. Here are a few of my suggestions for the main screen.
Make the vertical divider between the song list panel and the lyric panel a moveable divider to make one bigger or small as desired.
There is a lot of wasted space with the volume slider which could be reassigned to more assignable buttons. The volume could be shown as a dial knob, no bigger that one of the current assignable buttons which can be aduusted by putting a finger onto it and dragging in the way that many software synths show their rotary controls. Indeed the volume knob could be one of the assignable button choices in that format (we already have a vol up and vol down button so this would reduce the number of buttons to do the same task).
Use a similar button sized assignable dial for the scroll speed and font size. For me this is wasted space as I put the effort into sorting these things in advance of me ever performing a song others will need it available so as an assignable ‘button’ dial the user has the choice. However it is important to keep the manual/auto button on the screen somewhere such as on the top right as another button or as a finger swipe from right to left on the lyric pain or a semi transparent button like the crossfade button.
The freeing up of the volume bar would give the ability to add an extra eight or nine current sized assignable operations along that area. These can be used mid performance. However, an option to sacrifice extra buttons and return to the current format could be given as a menu option in setup for those happier as is.
More MIDI assignable buttons, maybe 10 rather than the current two. For me this would be awesome as I can trigger, via MIDI anything I want at any time in any song. E.g. I could assign reverb on/off mid song to talk to the audience (I currently do that with the two buttons) but also change lighting routines or background displays. Used in conjunction with the above suggestions.
A better interface for the control/use of regions. I keep looking at this and thinking I can see advantages in my se but it always seems too complicated to easily use on stage and too time consuming to program in advance. The problem is that I would not like to lose any of the screen area to this and so this may be a good use of a pop up menu when it’s needed.
When networking two ST machines together to play the track on the remote machine as well as/instead of the main machine using the tracks on the remote machines database. This would allow me to fully control my set from on stage but have the remote machine near the desk but without having to stream the audio. I often sing abroad where there is a sound booth at the rear of the room but no audio input from the stage area. It would also mean that I can be wireless on stage on my own gigs without having to stream Bluetooth audio as I always take a spare iPad anyway. A switch in the setup menu could decide if audio and lyrics are played in the remote machine or just lyrics in a similar way to how local/remote lyrics are displayed. The host machine would still play the track but the volume would be turned down. This would mean that all timings would remain good.
Sorry a bit of a long list but this software is so important to me which is why I’ve been a beta tester for so long.
Other than that please don’t mess around with its current layout too much. It is awesome for me on stage and has allowed me to make a good living for some 10years or so without the issues I had with gear for the previous 25 years. I’ve managed to sell a huge number of people to using ST3 because for a live performer, especially a solo performer, it can be very simple or extremely feature packed without taking away from the performance or the audience.
One final request, if ST4 is going to be so different and maybe lose some of the live performance advantages the please retain support and upgrades to ST3.
Whatever you do Peter, thanks for and awesome product.
One further request either for 3 or 4 would be to allow the program to be assignable to a midi device number (including the current omni) as I use a midi floorboard and would like to send to other devices without triggering my ST3 commands. I.e. my ST could be set to midi ID3 and would ignore anything not sent to that address on the midi bus. This is obviously only for the midi input side of ST the sending of midi would remain the same.
Brian
All valid points. Here are some remarks:
iPhone App: I will not build a seperate app but I guess the iPhone version will have less functionality. Some things are too hard to build in a way that works both on a big and a small screen. So in these cases I will opt to simply drop the functionality that does not fit on the small screen size.
Vertical Divider: You can already change the width. Here is video: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/overview/#full-screen-player-with-lyrics
Audio Region interface: I am thinking a lot about how to do it right. Currently I think it will be a view that will only be displayed when a song contains audio regions. And it will be a scroll view to have enough space to show small regions or a large number of regions. Not sure yet if it will be horizontal or vertical. But in any case it will make the lyrics view smaller when displayed. No way around that.
MIDI Receive: I don't understand. ST3 already only listens for commands that you assign to it. And these commands include a midi channel. So dedicate a midi channel to Stage Traxx and setup your midi commands accordingly. ST3 will ignore anything it does not know.
- Edited
peter Audio Region interface: I am thinking a lot about how to do it right. Currently I think it will be a view that will only be displayed when a song contains audio regions. And it will be a scroll view to have enough space to show small regions or a large number of regions. Not sure yet if it will be horizontal or vertical. But in any case it will make the lyrics view smaller when displayed. No way around that.
A view only when song contains audio regions makes good sense.
Position of the interface , I would want it definitely horizontal as it makes more sense, and I would have it at the lower part of the screen just above the controller button area, reason is I hate putting my hand in front of my lyrics while choosing loops.
I also think it might be better to have proportionally sized loop buttons so you never end up with small loop sections which are hard to hit , these buttons to have a scroll indicator moving from left to right through the button to indicate when the loop is ending , this then becomes easy to trigger all loops no matter how large or small number of loops you use.As they are clearly labeled to what they are and colour coded, when using loops I don’t really need a waveform to watch I have an audience, my eyes are on them, I need a very clear button to hit quickly and reliably so my screen does not keep dropping down by accident like it continually does now.
The scroll view idea might work but only to cut in when using a large number of loops and the buttons start getting too small for the finger and perhaps this screen to auto scroll to keep the now playing loop in the middle of screen so you can easily jump forward or backward if needed.
Here’s an idea , when using loops we loose the waveform, it becomes a loop button or buttons instead, you now get a master moving song indicator through all the loops area to tell us where we are in the overall song, when in play mode it is only a visual indicator to where you are in the overall song and can’t be adjusted, when in stop mode, if you long press on this indicator you can scroll through the song just like you do now in waveform and as you move you finger around the appropriate loop buttons they get highlighted and the internal button position indicator of the individual loop scrolls through as well letting you know where exactly you are in the song ie. half way in a solo or beginning of a 3rd verse , a single quick tap on a loop button selects it and you get same options that exist now if you tap more then once. This then gives us great visual feedback on stage and easy manoeuvrability when needing to practice, plus all the loop buttons are a good size , the less loops you use the bigger the buttons as you start using a very large number of loops there is a minimal optimal size loop where then you start using the scroll idea which then operates in this way,
As you start the song and see the first loop begin as normal, once you get to the middle, the unseen loops auto scroll towards the middle till the last loop is seen then the auto scroll stops and finishes to the end of screen .
This then automatically gives you flexibility to quickly be able to skip back & forth in loops without needing to scroll manually, if you choose to manually swipe to the end and choose a loop you drop out of auto scroll until the next loop ends which then automatically drop in to auto scroll again and places you in the middle of screen, this then allows you to browse your next loop but still gets you back in the middle of screen on a loop change.
The loop buttons could be a bees tit taller.
I think this would greatly simplify on stage use when using loops
Now this idea has not been proven so please think about it and see if you can come up with improvements.
Cheers Damir
Last minute thought, when you choose to use loops the whole song has to be looped not just one part of a song , so this way this idea will work technically and practically, why?
If you create just one loop in the middle of a song then you automatically get one loop at the beginning and one at the arse end of the song so you end up with 3 loops , if you create a loop from the begining or end of song you end up with 2 loops if you select the whole song from beginning to end you get 1 loop only but its the whole song, this then insures you will always see where you are in the song .
So if I want to loop the solo only that’s in the middle of a song you will also get the front of the song loop and the back of the song loop this then gives you three large buttons and a great way to see when you are approaching the solo loop so once that loop is active you can engage a permanent loop on it or a single repeat and when you are done you can see the arse end loop engage and follow it visually till the end.
If you only create one large loop of the song you can easily repeat the song or perhaps create two loops one that starts you off and the other when it comes to an end can jump to a specific spot in the beginning of the song so you have lots of options but the rule is if you choose one loop no matter what the whole song has to be looped one way or another.
The idea of loop buttons is if you decide to use loops the whole waveform area becomes either one large loop button or segmented loop buttons adjusting proportionallyto how many loops you use, then when you get to a specific size you stop the resizing and maintain this minimal size but introduce the auto/ manual side swipe idea which takes care of having very short loops .
So with this operation we will be able to choose easily the short endings and intros because the button sizes are all equal.
I have this great vision which i might just create as a drawing and show you how it might look but it might take a few days.
Cheers Damir
Here is a very quick knock up of the general idea , ignore a lot of the things i could not perfect its just a general layout i think would work better on stage for me as a right hander,
The title can stay on top and any other things that can go back up but generally the loop buttons are nicely at the bottom and are evenly sized for accurate touching the left of the Start button can be populated with better logic to use this space wisely.
And the song position can move through the song title area to indicate where you are generally
But i would have the master position cursor also in the loop area so when in stop mode you can long press it and move around the song.
The loop indicator could be just a colour change of the button scrolling from left to right indicating when loop will finish, while the master pointer to be a definite line through this area which would not work if you are playing but in stop mode a long press would let you scroll through the song and the loops buttons would follow in unison.
Sorry about the very rough drawing mockup but i hope you get my drift.
All good suggestions. I think we agree on the important layout issues.