Open Beta Version 3.6.0

BUG
1) open songs
2) enter a search string
3) select a song from list
4) click song details - screen opens then immediately closes

peter Damir, you really go the extra mile. This is really unnecessary work on your side. I am already uploading a new beta with a different approach to the edit view.

I dont mind bashing ideas around to perfect something worthy.
This is why ST3 is so powerful lots of ideas from different users.
The important thing is to make ST3 as powerful, simple, quick to use on stage.
Cheers Damir

peter Selecting a new audio region will automatically turn off looping of the currently playing region

This works well now, you can move on easily without having to work more to get yourself out of a permanent loop, great improvement!

peter Song details are always opened in full screen mode to have more room for editor views

MUCH BETTER!

peter Prevent selecting a new song if the next track is already armed for autoplay

I dont understand this issue.

But i have tested the operation of the ending loop in the player and it does not perform as expected.
My last loop is an ending that is very short and ends right at the end of the song, when i reach this loop area and select another loop in the song it does not jump to that loop it jumps to my next song selection, this is not what i wanted, i want to jump back to a selected loop section.

I have also noticed this in the loop editor, where the last loop does not actually loop like the rest of the loops it jumps to begining of song, this is not correct, i expect this loop to be just like any other.

Damir Song details are always opened in full screen mode to have more room for editor views

MUCH BETTER!

But i just noticed this only happens if you TAP TO CLOSE function but if you have lyrics window open it still only opens the old way.

peter It is now also possible to lock the region length with the link button between the two waveforms. When engaged, you can move the region around without changing its length. That's very useful when your loops is running fine but does not start at a downbeat for example.

I dont mind this option it could prove usefull.

peter This is a big change in the audio regions editor. The editor now has 3 main parts: a waveform overview for the whole song to roughly place audio regions and 2 detail editors that will always show the start and end of a selected region. You can pan in these editors to fine tune region starts and ends.

First impression.
Its confusing, yes its nice to be able to tweak the two points without long press but you never really feel you know exactly to where you are or what you are tweaking, you have to wait for the loop point too long before you can hear it again and then when you get to the loop point there is no visual feedback to when you cross through this point, while the full song mode is too hard to see accurately to where your rough loop points are, the whole interface really runs by using your ears, visually it does little, its still hard to use, and thats on an ipad pro 10.5 i havent even tried it yet on an iphone.If you have already placed a number of loops within the song it is very hard to create smaller loops as you cant zoom in to a point so you can choose the next loop insert.The loops have a very thick yellow border which makes it impossible to create another loop point near another loop point as you keep turning the existing loop on all the time.
My suggestion is get rid of the fat yellow lines which hide the waveform and place grab points where there is no waveform information and give us nice sharp edges to the loops so we get a better idea to where we are, the waveform is small as it is we dont need fat lines blocking our view.
Another issue is you need to allow us to chose another loop while the now loop is playing and let us hear the transition, otherwise you dont know how these loops work together in different order untill you go to the main player.

Hello Peter thank you for the latest Beta release and the improvements to the wave regions editor. Unfortunately I still find it difficult to use but will persevere. I’ve now spend a lot of time creating intro loops for many of my songs. My conclusion is that users should not expect a magic solution to creating a perfect loop even with the best editors. It takes quit a time to audition and tweak the end points to achieve that perfect loop which can be very tedious and frustrating! However the more you do it the better you become - practice makes perfect!
I’ve now got about 30 songs with loops that I’m ready to use at the next suitable gig which is in about 3 weeks time. I’m currently rehearsing using a foot pedal to switch loops on and off just to get used to it and minimise me making a fool of myself in front of the crowd! Cant wait!

By the way I’ve had one crash yesterday evening which I forwarded to you but for some reason was unable to enter supporting info in the dialogue box. It happened when adjusting the loop start point I was creating.

Keep up the good work.

I'm confused about how the detailed views work. I expect the loop to start at the thick yellow line on the left view and end on the thick yellow line on the right view, but it seems to start at the very right of the left view and end at the very right of the right view. What am I missing?

peter Weird that mine doesn't correspond with a click track; it definitely plays from and to the right of the view and not the centre. I was wondering if it could be a larger buffer setting or something. Anyway, not important.

I'd still like to see an option to halve or double the length of the region. This would make it super easy to keep the regions tied to the bpm of the song. Locking the length, as you have implemented it now and enabling it to move around, is great for a region linked to tempo.

peter OK, I bought Twisted wave and played around with it. It is indeed easier to define loops. Although I find the positioning of the play marker a bit cumbersome and it often clears my loop region. But I will to build something in that direction in the next update.

Yes Defining of loops is easy and that’s why I wanted you to see it and the clearing of loop is there because it’s not meant to be a loop player so it assumes you save your loop and move on to next creation, this would need to be setup differently in our case but I wanted you to get the feel of the programs function in achieving a very accurate loop with ease . I created the pictures of that same interface but modified to our needs and to me it would work perfectly as a layout because you see everything at once , the status of all loops permanent loops their colours and the less loops you use the bigger the buttons so in the case of extreme 12 loops you can still use iPhone in landscape and get the job done in portrait mode the buttons might be crowded but I still think might be usable even there, but I can guarantee you not many people will use 12 loops as normal song breakdown 6 to 8 loops is more than enough otherwise you have too many to deal with and it becomes real brain power to remember them all for many songs and it becomes a nuisance than a benefit.

I believe your last idea would be great as a second loop option where last 2 bars of loop is heard and seen and the first 2 bars of the loop beginning with an insert of 2 second silence in the middle this would give you a loop option to work just on the loop point itself very quickly to perfect it, the third loop option allows loops to play on to next selected loop this allows for checking of loops between themselves to make sure no matter what order of loops you choose they work well.
This is important.
And of course the first loop selection is standard loop mode where the whole loop repeats itself, unless you haven’t selected any loops in which case the whole song is displayed in all waveform window and all loop selections behave as if a loop was selected except it works on the whole song.

Getting the basic layout is most crucial, with my layout it almost feels like the main interface, all the buttons and visual needs are right there in your face , turning permanent loops off in one hit they are all seen immediately as you enter the interface all colours work for you immediately everything you need is in your face for quick tweaking it would just work like you were in the main screen of ST3 .
Keep on Rockn!

peter So from what I gather is that the overview could stay more or less the way it is but instead of loop start and loop end, there will be a single detail view which can be zoomed freely via vertical pan and scrolled left and right.

Yes that’s correct, but it needs to be as accurate and easy to use as Twisted wave otherwise it won’t really work if we don’t have that accuracy.Basically twisted wave would be perfect if it just saved the loop created and allowed us to create up to 12 loops , instead of having a stereo top waveform a mono is good enough to move generally around the song , and the other channel space gives us a great spot for loop buttons, I have put in a volume as it’s handy to set a quick comfortable volume when dealing with loops as it’s irritating if too loud or too soft but this level to have no relevance to any other volumes it’s purely this interfaces setting.
Same with permanent loop buttons , the settings are purely just a setting choice for playback, the choices made here do not get used in this window as you are concentrating on loop creation only but you have the easy choice to setup how you want the performance to go.
You have your big loop button to setup 3 types of loop methods and the fourth deselects all loop options. In portrait you have 1 button and switch through it, in landscape you have all thee button options as you have realestate for it and it’s easily seen to what options you have, one push selects a button another deselects it.

Loop button operation
As you create a loop
First loop option is a standard loop that loops a selected loop or the whole song if no loop selection

Second push on loop gives you 2 bars of end of loop and plays through to 2 bars of beginning of loop has a sound pause of 2 seconds then plays the last two bars of end of loop again.If no loops are selected it does the same but using the whole song.
Choosing another loop while in this mode starts a new playback from the 2 bar end of this loop to the beginning of next selected loop this gives you a test between the two loops and maintains the same logic on the next loop.

Third push on loop button allows the loops to play through if no selection of next loop, but jumps to next selected loop after it’s played through, this allows for all loop testing against each other.

Fourth push on loop button cancels all loop functions and behaves as expected , plays through once and stops.If no loop is selected it plays the whole song and stops.

But the first loop option is always created when creating a new loop this is the normal starting point it assumes you are finding a rough loop point once you found it you go to second option to fine tune it, once all loops are created you go to third option to test all loops against each other and you’re done.

Cheers Damir

peter Good news is you are on the rigt path, in a few minutes i have corrected all my best loops to be even better with ease, i definitely like this because the waveform view actually zooms so you can easily recognize visually your edit points and hear the end result, plus i like the colour coding of loops and the grab points and edges of loop points.
This i noticed as soon as i started using the interface and within 5 minutes of using the inerface am reporting this , but the bad news is there are major issues with the pinch and zoom and playhead operation , firstly i crashed the software while using the pinch zoom and it has sent a log to you, secondly the playback head seems to have priorety over moving freely to around the waveform when zoomed in, this is wrong i need the loop to be looping automatically i dont care what the playhead is doing i care about getting to my in and out points with ease while zoomed in because i now want to accurately edit my edit points the playhead is hogging the show it wont allow me to work on my loop with freedom.
Once the pinch zoom is used i expect to touch the screen and move about in the waveform so i can accurately position my point of interest.
Perhaps a long press on the waveform brings the playhead to that point but a quick swipe left or right moves the waveform left or right. Also while in loop playback pinch zoom is a bit unstable when zoomimg in on the ends of a loop where two loops meet this needs to be very reliable.
So in 5 minute test i love the idea it works very nicely but i hate its behavioure as its fighting me all the way , its very close to be great but needs a closer look at its operational logic, i could definitely create fast accurate loops if it only behaved better, i will give it more time to work out its reason for my dislikes, but generally i like it the best of all your other tries, well done Peter youre on a winner here.
Great stuff
Cheers Damir