ST3 Tempo feature?

Damir

jzavaletta I don’t understand why you would need this if you already have a backing track. Unless one is planning to change tempo of the track? And why would you do that? SMH

I totally agree that a simple visual metronome would be very helpful for those that just use lyrics without backing, thats fine.
And yes we don't need a click track or a visual click when we can hear a backing track and use the lyrics screen with timed cues on screen while the song is playing.
But there is a need for a visual click with songs you start without engaging the backing track, it would be very helpful to have a visual indicator of the tempo of the song backing you are about to blend in to , and there are times when i do stop the playback and get the crowd singing and clapping but i have just lost all sync and if this pause is long enough i might loose the tempo slightly to the new loop point i am about to trigger to keep going, so by continually having a visual click on screen will help me to stay in sync so i can trigger my new start knowing i haven't at least changed the tempo which will sound bad, what i would like is to have freedom to exit the backing and enter it on any loop point with confidence.
I hope that makes more sense.
So firstly i need to have the correct tempo setting of all songs secondly i need to have an instant start on a beat of all songs and in my case i start all my songs on a beat and all my loops have perfect looping throughout the whole song so no matter where i want to go i just select the section and i can manoeuvre around all of my song in perfect time, which allows me to stop the backing and start whichever loop i choose as they mostly all begin on beat 1,
Its like having a live band behind you and freedom to manipulate the audience in a similar way a live band does.
And its simple to setup thanks to Peters looping design.
There are other scenarios that this could help which i wont try and explain here.
I hope i have explained myself more clearly.
Cheers Damir

peter

I think I wrote this dozens of times but getting a metronome in sync with existing audio either requires that your audio file starts exactly on a beat and has a constant tempo, then the current solution will work fine. Or ST3 needs to detect the beat grid in the audio file which it can not currently do and with the mathematics knowledge I have, all my experiments so far in this area lead to unsatisfactory results that only worked for a low percentage of audio files.

And regarding the metronome continuing when stopped: ST3 always has a bit of a delay when starting playback. I can not get that in sync with a metronome that is already running. So even if you would start playback on the visual beat and the audio files would start exactly on a beat, the metronome and playback would be off. The audio engine is not designed for realtime manipulations.

Damir

peter And regarding the metronome continuing when stopped: ST3 always has a bit of a delay when starting playback. I can not get that in sync with a metronome that is already running. So even if you would start playback on the visual beat and the audio files would start exactly on a beat, the metronome and playback would be off. The audio engine is not designed for realtime manipulations.

You are the technological expert Peter, i am just mouthing off ideas in case it triggers a different perspective in your mind and perhaps gives us a workable end result, so what you are saying is you cant use the beginning of loops time-codes to re trigger the start of preset visual click that has been locked to the songs tempo setting, the way i see it a visual click is an add on bit of software that gets activated when a song is loaded , you have an option in settings to turn it on/off and it obeys the tempo set in your song , if turned on every song when loaded without playing it will immediately display this visual click , once you start a song no matter where it starts if the song has a loop in it, the beginning timecode of that loop restarts the visual metronome count, this then gets you in sync , so i don't see the beginning delay being an issue , all you need to do is set one loop that starts on the first beat of the song and you are in sync if you have numerous loops they just refresh the visual click that obeys the song tempo setting, this then gives us the ability to stop whenever, then select another loop and when play starts visual click re syncs using the timecode of that loop which re triggers the visual click to first beat , but it always obeys the song tempo setting of that song.
Now thats my view of how i would approach the design , BUT IS THIS TECHNICALLY DOABLE IS SOMETHING ONLY YOU KNOW and if its not its fine, perhaps when apple allows greater flexibility and ease of design we might get what we need.
I think the simple add on will be great for the lyrics only users.
Cheers Damir

rushak

I for one would love this feature even if it's just for a lyric only song. I just came across this scenario at last rehearsal where my bandmates wanted to try some different covers on the fly which required my drummer to switch to a different app to run a click. Keeping everything within ST3 would be amazing.

What I would love even more is being able to adjust the tempo of my multi track songs on the fly and adjust the time triggers for lyrics/midi when the band wants to try the song at a different tempo. Currently, I have to go back to the DAW to mix down to the new tempo's and then adjust my time triggers. I'm sure this would be a pretty monumental task to do and I have zero complaints about how it is today.

Thanks for all you do Peter!

Jason

peter

@Damir I thought a bit longer about your request with showing the metronome when stopped and now I think that makes sense. It is sometimes really useful to know the tempo of song before playback starts. So each song will not only have a trigger to turn the metronome on or off, but one of the following options: off, visible when stopped, visible when playing and always visible

@rushak The problem is that it needs a lot of processing power to timestretch all tracks in realtime. On older devices this would prevent stable playback.

Damir

peter So each song will not only have a trigger to turn the metronome on or off, but one of the following options: off, visible when stopped, visible when playing and always visible

I think having those options in song details would be fantastic for each song as some songs would not need the metronome and some might only need it at the start while others might be stopping and starting throughout the song so this would give them greater confidence when doing these type of crowd pleasing manoeuvres, if possible I would still have an overall enable disable of this feature in settings as the quick master control , basically the visual click control would be set up like an audio mixer principle each song is like one channel of the mixer and the master volume is the full mix of channels going through it.
To make this feature really sing if possible have a simple tap button next to the song tempo setting so when you play the song you simply tap to the beat to get its average tempo then you can enter this figure in to the Song Tempo which then gives you an accurate visual click it also updates the loop edit grid and provides valuable info when searching for a particular tempo song.
If this setting is not correct it makes everything kaput.

dsc66

I wasn’t sure if this belonged here or in a separate thread, but I opted for here as a tempo feature is something i would also find useful, but I would prefer to use an external Device instead of a flashing screen. I like my SoundBrenner Pulse linked to Ableton via Ableton Link.
Stagetrax is great for its simplicity but not being able use the Pulse is something I miss.

To work with StageTraxx integration of the AbletonLink library would be required. Potentially many other benefits for those that want to link/sync to desktop apps as well. Any way, a link to the API docs…. https://ableton.github.io/linkkit/ for future consideration.

Damir

dsc66 a tempo feature is something i would also find useful, but I would prefer to use an external Device instead of a flashing screen

Why do you want ST3 if you are using Ableton or other external devices? ST3 is a stand alone player that gives you lots of on stage features that lacks a visual temp display introducing a Daw to run in parallel defeats the usefulness of having a simple quick to setup player that almost does it all.
Can you perhaps explain your need in more detail so we can possibly support you in your need.
Cheers Damir

dsc66

Ok , I was not clear. I don’t want Ableton on stage, im a long way from ever wanting that although I will admit I had considered the idea before I came across ST3, but I would have only been using it as a complicated ST3.

ST3 meets my needs as a chord/lyric sheet and a click and automated patch changes. Simple and great.

Having said that, it would be super useful to make use of my soundbrenner pulse metronome to help me keep time, in preference to a flashing screen. At home, when practicing I will do one of 3 things:
1 Play along to my metronome
2 click/backing track in st3 or generic drum machine track
3 play my backing track in ableton, in order to sync my metronome to it.

As i understand it, and i might have it all wrong, the ableton link interface is not just for ableton. The soundbrenner pulse is a vibrating metronome that uses the sdk to communicate and as such if ST3 used the sdk, I believe ST3 could send the soundbrenner the bpm and start it pulsing. The pulse could also be used to send start/ stop signals to ST3 instead of a midi pedal which is also super useful.

Damir

dsc66 it would be super useful to make use of my soundbrenner pulse metronome to help me keep time, in preference to a flashing screen.

What does the soundbrenner do that is so different to the ST3, if it creates a sync sound, ST3 can do that, if it has a visual click hopefully Peter is creating one that will beat anything on the market.
To create an Audio metronome on ST3 just create a 4 bar click sound of your choice set at 120bpm name it Metronome and set a permanent loop on it then you can use the speed control to vary the speed , to make it even more easy and powerful you can use all the 24 loops and have preset tempos in each name the loops to whatever you want 3/4 2/4 6/8 4/4 tempo 4/4 120. 4//4 130 etc, place all the loops to permanent looping name the song METRONOME colour it a colour to easily see it amongst your song files and use it whenever or how ever you want to suit you music style , and once the visual metronome compliments it you will have the most powerful metronome on the planet, so why would you need an external tack on metronome?

dsc66

Damir
Click is fine. I use it. The Soundbrenner Pulse difference is that it is a vibrating metronome, so i don't have to listen for a click, or stare at a pulse. I can just feel it. You wear it as a watch on your wrist, your leg or around your chest, whatever works for you. (apparently popular with drummers). Multiple soundbrenners can be in synch, each with a different pulse, e.g. i like to set up a strumming pattern pulse to play too, but my wife prefers a traditional 1,2,3,4 metronome click. We set our own pattern, and sync the start and bpm and one of us taps the watch to start. Great to just use without the annoying tick of a traditional metronome and personalised as well.

If i am just using lyrics, i will start my pulse then start ST3, thats fine as it doesn't need to be 100% in synch. the screen will scroll through just fine.

If they were in synch, it would be nice and i could still use the pulse while having a backing track. Would i use it all the time, probably not. If its not in ST3 am i going to stop using st3, NO. But if a tempo feature is being considered, well I would probably just do what i do now rather than use a flashing screen, but i understand that will work for others. Just putting the idea forward for consideration.

dsc66

Damir p.s. I had not thought of a specific metronome track before. Good idea. Might have play with that. I guess I have been doing something similar by sending midi commands to my multi pedal to set bpm and then select a drum pattern, but this could be a simpler alternative. Mind you, i like the drum patterns. :-)

Damir

dsc66 wow! Brilliant, i never thought of a vibrating metronome as this could be used for visually impaired musicians that don't want the click on the fold back or in ears, I've fortunately had my eye lenses replaced and have perfect 20/20 vision but my wife is saying I'm going deaf as i never answer her, 😂, i keep things very simple my sync track is mainly my backing audio and the synced lyrics screen but sometimes i start the song without running ST3 it would be very helpful to have a visual click present at the beginning and sometimes i stop the backing and involve the crowd as then i choose a new loop to go back to like solo or chorus to then keep going this is also where a visual click would come in very handy, but generally i don't need much to keep tight the synced lyrics and the backing track has usually got enough information to keep me going in sync, having a metronome song i think would be great if it came with ST3 as a complimentary song and it should be made so you cant delete it with pre defined settings for basic beats and sound, then if you want a drum type of metronome just create it to your liking and use it as you desire, all the facilities are already there as a stereo track you can pitch and speed shift it to tweak to your liking you can duplicate this song change its name to metronome 2 and setup from the original a totally different metronome, the possibilities are endless , place all the sounds and tempos in to one song in the DAW and use the loop function to create the Metronome you want etc,etc,
I like the vibrating idea , i wonder if you can have it so it gives you a electrical shock like the massage units, you could massage yourself to the beat of the song while performing, the mind bogles 🤔🤪

peter

I could not find any info how to integrate Soundbrenner as a developer into an app. Not sure whether they are targeting small scale developers like myself?

But anyway, the problem remains that ST3 has no beatgrid and a bit of a latency when starting tracks so the metronome would be out of sync most of the time so that would be extremely annoying.

dsc66

peter
Hi Peter, Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to look.

Well, the discussion got me interested again... so I decided to see what was possible and my findings may be useful to others (assuming I am not the only person with a Soundbrenner).

Hidden away in the soundbrenner app are some Bluetooth Midi options (with notes on the website that say it is still in development).

I started by connecting the Soundbrenner with the my phone (rather than my i pad with Stagetrax), turn on the midi option, advertise my phone, and to my surprise the phone completed a bluetooth midi connect to StageTrax. Step 1. Yay :-).

But I didn't get much further until I noticed on another settings page in the Soundbrenner settings app that I can use the screen of the metronome as a Midi Controller.

so, I enable Midi Controller mode and I set it to Toggle between CC16 and CC17 on alternate screen taps....

Assign Start and Play in Assign Settings in ST3 and amazingly ST3 on my ipad received the commands ... Double YAY.

Sure enough I could start and Stop Playback which is actually already a nice to have. This works with or without a metronome pulse.

You have stated many times how there is a delay on starting a track in ST3, but with one of my backing tracks I set my metronome off at 70 bpm and about a quarter pulse before Beat1 I tapped my screen and found I was blown away when the Drum beat came in on my next Beat 1spot on and palying in sync.

Ok, I don´t see me using it with a backing track, but certainly It actually works great for lyric only tracks. Maybe a practice at home thing for now, but who knows.

Now, there are some settings to use the wheel as a midi controller as well..... What shall I try? Scroll Lyrics, Change Volume, Next audio region, Toggle Loop. this could be fun. :-)

dsc66

The rabbit hole got a bit deeper and I´m still falling. I will start a seperate discussion. But I have ST3 starting my pulse metronome automatically with the correct bpm, but a slight timing issue. Very interesting.

MitchellB

There is an app called Mixet that has the Ableton Link feature. I use the Soundbrenner pulse devices and have often hoped for a simple way to use them with Stage Traxx.
Stage Traxx is my preferred app (by a LOT) and adding Ableton Link would be a wonderful think. It is useful for much more than just a metronome.

peter

Ableton Link only works if there is a beatgrid which Stage Traxx does not have.

ThomasV

Hey, hello! First of all congratulations for the amazing app! I am really blown away.
I have a somewhat strange question for you:

If I set the bpm for a song and turn the midi clock on, the tempo perfectly syncs to my Fractal FM9. Awesome!
My "problem" is that with our band we have constructed a couple of medleys (15-20 mins long) that contain multiple songs with variable tempi. Is there a way to change the bpm value that is transmitted via midi clock within the same track? If such a thing is not possible, could there be a way to override the midi clock and send the tempo via mdi or sysex?

Another thing I tried was to create regions in these medleys and set different bpm for each of the sections, but I haven't found such an option. Which, btw, seems logical to me, since what I am looking for might be very niche.

Will be looking forward to your replies and ideas.
Once again a million congrats for the app!!

peter

No, the only option is to cut your medley into separate songs and let them play automatically via autoplay.

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