Searching for songs

MattH

I've got it, after writing all Artist with BPMs etc...
Far from done yet. 🤣
I could add the groups between the BPMs I'd like to have, and then add them with tags for keywords.
Woo Hoo
I might be finished in a few weeks... 😆

Damir

MattH yes I was going to suggest using the filter facility where you create your BPM naming so you might end up with 6 or so BPM ranges and easily choose one and it will only give you those tempo range songs in the song list.

Damir

MattH Ha Ha, i just realised what i did, i actually created 3 catagory filters called SLOW TEMPO SONGS, MEDIUM TEMPO SONGS, FAST TEMPO SONGS, this gives me enough filtering to have a smaller list of songs to be able to more quickly choose a next song, but i still only use this in the prep stage of my setlists, as i said before filter option is not ideal live on stage as it is hidden on another page and if left on by mistake can cause more problems that its worth.

peter

Bpm is indeed primarily meant for sending MIDI clock but it would be quite easy to extend the filter dialog with bpm min and max value fields. I will add this to my todo list for version 3.6.

@MattH You might want to hold on with this until the next feature release in summer.

Damir

peter I know there is software out there that can look at a song file and work out its BPM automatically, it would be great if some how ST3 could do this automatically as you load songs and some how display the information and perhaps an easy search by BPM range.
This would be very handy when creating set lists or perhaps finding appropriate next song where you want to continue with the drive and need to find the next song option without loosing the crowd.

MasterAnt

peter Perhaps the artist field isn't that useful for a few of us.. it's more of a general purpose / notes field. The power of it is in the fact that it is sortable. I like the way, with dates, that you get a heading in the song list once sorting is enabled, which is easier to see. Do you think only having Artist is the best use of this space? I actually can't read the artist under the song name when on stage--it's too small. Is there / could there be a way to change the font size of this field? Would it be useful to have an actual year field, per the original ID3 tag in addition to the artist for those who use both?

Damir

peter
A thought
Peter, Looping will probably require to know the beat so perhaps this can be something that can be a part of that implementation.

Damir

MasterAnt I agree Artist is very useful for its search capability and fast filtering, people will use it in many different ways to suit their operation so asking to make the field more visible on stage makes good sense, brighter font with slightly larger font capability as an option in that field would help for those that use this field heavily on stage.
Because I use backing tracks that split in two ones with drums and ones without drums plus I DJ and have normal song tracks I use the artist field to easily seperate the 3 file types, so when I am creating playlists I just do a search with drums and all my backing files will be found for easy playlist creation.
The reason I prefer this method to the Filter method which is also great, is when I edit my songs in a DAW I enter song name and appropriate artist label to suit my needs, when this is loaded to ST3 it automatically appears in the song and I don’t have to waste any more time to create filtering, I can just enter a search criteria and find files by song name and ARTIST, this saves me lots of stuffing about.
The Filter option is great if you put in the time to create it but it also can backfire on you if you leave a filter on by mistake and don’t realise it, on stage it is buried behind the normal operating screen so it’s a bit useless for quick live operation, it is more useful in the prep stage of operation.
As I said if you accidentally leave a filter on it does not display this fact and you might be searching for a song you will never find as it’s filtered out yet you don’t know this till you find out the hard way embarrassingly on stage searching for something you will never find.
1 minute later OOPS the bloody filter is on, GRRRRRR 😡🤡.
So to avoid this trap I use filters to help me in prep stages of setting up for a gig and I don’t use it live on stage as it involves too many touches of iPad.
I try not to touch the iPad at all while performing, if I have to do so it means I haven’t prepared correctly or it’s because ST3 just can’t deliver efficiently to what I need.

MasterAnt

Regarding BPM, I'd prefer the idea of sorting by BPM rather than filtering by it using keywords, but if you build it in as you described then that could be quite nice. Personally I find that BPM doesn't necessarily relate to the feel (danceability) of the song. Some songs feel faster/slower with/without a prominent tambourine, guitar rhythm, etc.

Damir

MasterAnt yes but we are talking about finding a next song that will either maintain the tempo or perhaps you need a change to up or down tempo the mood on the dance floor having BPM search quickly gives you options to be creative with song selection.
If you have 500 songs its not always easy to get that perfect next song to achieve a goal you are trying to achieve on stage, knowing the tempo of existing song then having a method of filtering to choose the next apropriate song really helps, theres nothing worse the choosing the wrong song and seeing the dance floor get empty because you chose a great song but you forgot that this song is actually half tempo of the previous one and will put people to sleep.
A good DJ relies heavily on BPM or else he wont be good for long.

Damir

MattH you shouldnt have to work so hard to achieve something that should be programmed to keep it simple, thats what good software does, it should provides simple operation to achieve complicated things, making life easy and fast operation.
If you always have to use work arounds it means the software is failing.
I like the BPM idea , software of this calibre deserves to have an automated system, where every song entered should be automatically processed and its BPM calculated and displayed to us, then a simple search implemented to find us specified BPM ranges for quick and easy selection of next songs.
There is software out there that does this but then it doasnt do anything like ST3 does , so "we,r caught in a trap we cant walk out, because i love you to much baby" a bit of elvis always helps.
Never mind, one day we will look back and laugh.
I love this program!

MasterAnt

Damir I have four songs:
Take it Easy @ 141BPM
Boy of Summer @ 176BPM
The Look (Roxette) @ 92BPM
Lemon Tree @ 140BPM

The right song in my style of playing to keep people on the dancefloor is to play The Look after Take it Easy. If I play Boys of Summer then everyone leaves the dancefloor, and not because it's too fast... Lemon Tree is also too slow. For me it isn't always about the BPM number.

But using BPM as a DJ is a different thing altogether...

Damir

MasterAnt of course it’s the choice of popularity of song that matters first the BPM is just a quick way to get presented with a choice of songs that are similar tempo once you get all the others out of the way it’s then your choice to picking which next song is appropriate you might end up with 20 songs of choice that’s a lot easier to make a decision then 200, you might want to play slow listening songs next to change the atmosphere , BPM is handy to filter out inappropriate songs leaving you with only appropriate songs then you still need to read the crowd to which slow songs but at least it’s easier. I have 360 backing tracks and around 10,000 DJ songs of mixed countries I need all the help I can get.
On average my gigs range from needing 20 to 50 songs that’s a lot of filtering so any extra helpful method is always welcome 🙏

peter

BPM Calculations

I'm not sure yet how exactly the looping feature will be implemented and BPM might be useful but not as much as having a beatgrid. The beatgrid is way more important for looping than BPM because you always want to make cuts and loops on a beat. What's the difference you ask? A song has a single BPM value whereas a beatgrid will adapt to tempo changes within a song. So my current idea is to detect the beatgrid for a song and then use this to make it ease to define looping regions.

Artist formatting in song lists

Of course I could make the artist field bigger but that would make each song take up more space and therefore you will see less songs on your screen. It is a tradeoff. Maybe a configurable size might work but I doubt there is a single setting that would fit every use case.

Personally I work a lot with colors. I use colors for different song attributes that allow me to scan through large song lists just with the glimpse of an eye to find certain types of songs.

Damir

peter love all your responses and hope to see looping soon, I’m not too fussed about BPM as I organise my gigs very carefully before hand but looping is my BIG NEED, as I have had this on my keyboards using midi and it’s great , now that midi is the thing of the past I really miss the looping in audio files, I had 4 loop points in midi and was happy 6 loop points in audio I would be like pig in shit 🐖🤩

MattH

Thank you for all the replies in this threat, I am loving this app.
It’s a good price, does what’s needed for me, support network is excellent, I’m very happy to have found it.
Bye bye iTunes…

MattH

I’d also like to say, I’ve added in the ‘Artist Field’.
Artist
BPM
Year
All these currently work great for my searches and my needs.
I might be categorising into Slow/Med/Upbeat/Dance.
Maybe genres too? Swing/Rock n Roll/Jive/tango/Latin?
So many options, I hope I won’t run out of space for all my options? 🤷🏻‍♂️
It is time consuming to enter all data, but work and now all my 250+ songs are ready for the stage.
Unfortunately, during every gig someone asks for a song I don’t have.
So the work never stops. Lol
As I am a vocalist, I can’t just download it. I need to learn it. 🙄
But… got to keep them happy for the next gig. 👍

Damir

MattH it doasnt matter if you have 10,000 songs in your song list , someone is going to ask for something you dont have, so i just look at it this way, i am in charge to entertain the majority so i choose what i perform as long as you are entertaining the majority the minority that usually are not happy no matter what you present to them even if you performed naked up side down would not get their attention perhaps a laugh, so just use songs you know people love and if someone requests a song you dont have , perhaps check it out later and if it appears to be a not most popular song dont waste your time learning it as it probably wont be requested again, the other trick is only use most popular songs that really suit you as a performer and try and choose great songs that most other singers dont do you will then make you stand out to potential clients.
Thats what i have found has kept me bussy as a performer in the last 45 years and i am still performing, mind you my audience is quickly dissapearing but i am adapting to the younger generation , i always use the who, what, where, why rule.
Good luck with ST3

MattH

Damir
Hi Damir, I completely agree, you can’t please all the people all the time, as long as catering for the majority is all we can do.
Trouble is, I’ve been asked back to the venue repeatedly, and want to keep all the punters happy. 🥴
I sing all mainly old stuff, Sinatra, Dean Martin, Matt Monro, Nat King Cole, Elvis, M Buble, a few more modern songs that fit my style and are fun.
When I get asked for Zepplin, I just laugh and say no! I mean, we’re they actually listening to my style!?
I’ve been performing for around 30 years, previously in the West End, but now in hotels/care homes/weddings and funerals…
I’m still learning the who,what,where,why as I haven’t been doing this solo stuff for long. it’ll take time to learn that, for now though trying to make the process as smoothly as possible when performing.
ST3 is helping with that so much…
Thanks for the feedback. 👍

Damir

MattH it sounds like we a in a very similar time of life, I just wish I had ST3 in my prime , the things I could have done with it , the new generation have it all but don’t know what to do with it. They have so much computer power in the palm of their hand yet they don’t raven know how to answer the phone when and if it rings.

MasterAnt

MattH haha, we probably all experience this and never quite know how to disappoint the person who thinks you're brilliant but then doesn't stop with the crazy requests. I get asked to sing ABBA all the time, and I sound more like Hootie & The Blowfish! I heard that on some cruise ships you are required to learn any song that is requested for returning patrons. I agree that just because I'm good at what I do, it doesn't mean I'd be any good at what my audience wants me to do. My latest idea is to tell the person I think you're getting Ant Music mixed up with Apple Music. Well that's not really something I've said yet, but finding the right way to say NO is an ongoing struggle. (I've been performing live for 26-years, and 14 of those as a one-man band.) What were we talking about: oh, searching for songs 😆