No, it is either pdf based or global. I myself would also prefer a pdf based setting.
Open Beta Version 3.5.0
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LYRICS ONLY observation
Its great the way you can bounce between normal backing tracks and Lyrics only tracks and i understand the two should operate very similarly, what i would like to see in Lyrics only is for pitch shift and speed to also have effect in this mode, the reason being is as you go fully live with Lyrics only you might want to continue in the same key as the previous song and the new song is in the wrong key a quick foot tap or on screen touch puts you in to the correct key visually, this is just one reason but there are others.
The Speed change would also be very handy, i know its not a real audio track but if there is a way to use this to vary the scroll it would be a great benefit so you can fine tune your scrolling on the run , i really would not want SCROLL SPEED control as this means more foot pedal buttons required, using speed control maintains consistancy between the two types of files.
I dont know if it is possible but it would keep things very consistant and user friendly.
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DickyDutch So, I tried different things and I am not sure which approach to the zoom factor would work best:
Having a per song zoom factor only works for a specific device and screen orientation. So if you set the zoom factor either to match the full height or width and then rotate the screen or show/hide the queue, this zoom factor does not fit any more.
A setting to specify whether you would like to see a pdf with full width or full height could automatically work in all orientations but it would not persist any manual zoom changes.
Combining both does not work.
So I am not sure any longer if option 1 is really the best solution. Maybe option 2 is preferable in most cases. That's also what forScore and Bandhelper are doing.
Damir Making lyrics only songs react to transpose pedal commands or assignable buttons can be done. But changing the speed not so much as the virtual playback is using a realtime clock to determine the play progress.
As you say option 2 would probably work best but I would need to confirm this by testing. Basically I want to be able to obtain the largest view that the screen will permit of the complete A4 pdf sheet(s) without having keep resizing each time I open the song. I think many other users will want the same. Peter I leave it in your very expert hands to find a workable solution. Many thanks. Oh one other thing being able to turn the pages via a midi/air turn pedal would be icing on the cake.
PDF feature first impression and honest feedback, Time consuming for little reward as it is but i am sure it can be improved, reasons.
Ive spent some time creating a PDF so i could test this function i used PDF EXPERT which was time consuming and i didnt get a finished product i wanted as it was to awkward but thats not ST3 fault.
Then i exported this PDF to ST3beta which was not successful initially as the PDF standard file name out of PDF Expert was not suitable for ST3 i then renamed the file and sucessfully got it in ST3 PDF folder, i then sucessfully loaded it in to ST3 PDF Document as i started my lyrics only song the pdf opened and was displayed , the control of zoom is very limited and clumsy if your information is centralized in the PDF file you are not going to be able to zoom in on this as the left side of the pdf is favoured and pulls everything that way meaning you are not seeing the info you want.
My other main concearn is once you load a PDF file it takes preference over the Text edit file and you can not quickly switch between the two the only way is to delete the PDF, this is a big problem, because some people might have their lyrics in text edit with auto scroll but also have a PDF notation version, this forces them to make a choice one or the other .
I need to play around a lot more to give precise feedback but as a quick first look at first 10 minute glance it is not ready for live performance it needs polish.
Lyrics only on the other hand is qute usable on stage as it is.
As i probably wont be a PDF user i will only comment on things i see a major issues and havent been picked up by anyone and leave the nitty gritty stuff to the guys that will be using it heavily.
Hi Damir I find the easiest way to create a pdf doc is to use the ms WORD app via the send copy, then pdf, then save to files function. I then import to the relevant song in STAGETRAXX. It’s quite easy.
DickyDutch Oh one other thing being able to turn the pages via a midi/air turn pedal would be icing on the cake.
Already possible. The scroll pedal commands (and buttons) work in lyrics and pdfs.
Either I am using PDF or plain text lyrics. What would be the use case for adding both to a song and needing to switch back and forth?
peter I did wonder if the page scroll commands worked on both text and pdf lyrics. I am currently not in the U.K. and don’t have my BlueBoard pedal with me to try. Perfect.
Agree with you I can’t see any user wanting to use both text and pdf lyrics - it will be one or the other but not both.
DickyDutch Thanks Dicky, i will try this software is it available on ipad i think i have word on ipad which i havent used much i just use notepad for lyrics or the ST3 editor directly as its the fastest way to finish a song so far.
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peter Either I am using PDF or plain text lyrics. What would be the use case for adding both to a song and needing to switch back and forth?
Sorry guys i totally disagree with this logic as it is limiting the software unnecessarily to be used in many different ways.
Heres one example i have always planned one day when ST3 is fully complete i was going to use it as my lyrics storage software. Lyrics only would be perfect for that as it also could work great with lyrics with chords so if i transposed the songs my lyrics chords would change i could then save that as a new file to be used in many ways, this is functionality at its best, but i see that PDFs are useful for others and possibly me as well but not at the expense of loosing Lyrics only function.The beauty of Lyrics only is you can easily copy and paste to and from backing tracks so creating files that are manipulated differently when live performing.
I also see the potentioal of PDFs but by introducing a pdf file so i can perform in a different way gets rid of my Lyrisc only file which i am also relying on for different reasons, i dont want PDFs to interfere with my Lyrics only files which i might need to copy and paste in to for numerous reasons.
I really dont understand why it was implemented in such a way to reduce full potential of both.
Surely it can be implemented in such a way its an addition to a way we work.
I would rather you then keep PDF functionality out of Lyrics only and introduced it as another option in ADD SONGS window and call it Create PDF Song totaly seperate to Lyrics only.
MY LOGIC.
Create Lyrics only song - means LYRICS ONLY SONG not notation or any other pdf capability so why have it there to cofuse us and hide pdf function so far its hard to find.
Create PDF Song - should be in ADD SONGS like Create MULTITRACK song , THIS IS WHERE IT BELONGS.
I know technically it means its a totaly new file and now we have 3 of the same name files performing 3 different ways but i rather have that as its logical and doasnt interfere with lyrics only than loosing one to have the other when i really need both.
PDFs have anvantages and disadvantages simple page turning is easy and useful for those loose free runing performances, but not so great if you change key and your chords and notation remains unchanged on screen.This is why having option to freely run the show and bounce easily between all of the three methods is very important.
I have not had the time to completely break down all reasons but my gut feeling is its not correct it needs better implementation to maximise usfulness to everyone not just PDF users.
I always imagined to be able to have the same song presented in 4 ways
Stereo backing
Multitrack backing
Lyrics only with chords capability
PDF as full notation of song
And all of these to be easily and instantly acessible in song list.
After all these thoughts Peter as you said simple answer is just use one method perhaps thats the easiest way out i will just stick with Lyrics only and ignore PDF function and see how it ends up and if i can use it usefully as i dont really need notation and lyrics only is faster and more flexible to me.
PDF observation
When you load a PDF file, and set a auto scroll time it does not auto scroll the PDF, is that meant to be that way?
Damir Sorry, I disagree completely with PDF being a dedicated song type. PDF is just a way to write lyrics and I still don't see anyone writing both lyrics and PDF documents and wanting to switch between those. Why would you need a PDF to perform the same song in a different way? I still don't see your point.
I will stick to the current approach: Songs with attached PDF files will display the PDF file.
Regarding autoscrolling: please scroll up to my first posting in this thread. It explains how to autoscroll PDF files.
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New beta build 7491
Added
- Setting to choose between full height and full width pdf display
- Coarse tuning setting
- Move selection up / down now available for assignable buttons
Changed
- Transpose buttons and pedal command now also work in lyrics only songs
- Waveform view for lyrics only songs with autoplay enabled is now better visible
Fixed
- Startup crash when deleting the active master effect plugin
- Transpose of chord lines with multiple timestamps not working
peter Improvement feedback
Coarse Tuning - works Briliantly like it a lot
Move selection up/down - works very handy if no remotes available
Transpose in Lyrics only - Works Feels great to be able to do this.
Waveform view for lyrics only - Very nice so much more user friendly.
Transpose of chord lines with multiple timestamp - So happy ! this now works and allows me to setup my song info the way i want thanks for this fix Peter.
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Peter i still have a big problem with a function that has never worked satisfactoraly, i believe i have a simple solution to fix it if its technically possible.
Getting to settings and exiting settings is awkward.
Where you have TAP TO CLOSE is right under another apple function that brings down a window option, this i regularly bring down by mistake as it is so close to where you are suggesting to hit to close the window, so why dont you change the position of this writing to the left and another one to the right of that area so we get two notifications and will get an immediate feel the whole area gets us to settings our brains will immediately recognize its the whole area we can hit or at best we will go closer to one of those headings and avoid an unnecessary drop window appearing.
The second problem i have always had with exiting the settings, there is no notification to where we need to hit to exit, so my suggestion is use the exact same TAP TO CLOSE spot on the upper screen to exit settings, instead of having to mind read to have to go down the page and guess where to press to exit , this is just not useable i am surprised no one has pointed this out already.
NOTE this is mainly an ipad issue it does not bother me so much on iphone because there is less realestate and tapping below seem to be the only option to close the window but i still dont like its not labeled in some way.
I wonder if apple have added this drop down function recently as it certainly is a pain my iphone does not seem to have this is it possible to disable this in apple settings , i havent found a way myself?
Hi Peter the introduction of the pdf width /height setting works well and is a great improvement- well done and thank you. However one very minor issue (which doesn’t bother me personally) is that on my ipad I’ve noticed that the pdf page is positioned ever so slightly too low resulting in a slight gap between the top of the pdf and the wave profile line. If it happens to be multi sheet pdf this gap becomes progressively larger as you page through the pdf. I personally only use 3 sheets max in any pdf so not a problem to me but some users may use more sheets and may find this expanding gap annoying. Perhaps it would be possible to ensure the same position for every pdf page?
Damir These buttons are placed by iOS. No way to get rid of them. See here: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253276698
Regarding settings: Settings are displayed inside a tab and the main player is a full screen view that is shown over the regular. Therefore it has a close functionality and the settings don't have this. Because closing that view would also close the app.
DickyDutch Yes I see it too now that you mention it. Not sure if I can change this but I will try.
peter sorry i know you are bussy beta testing but this has become a real problem to me and something i have tried to live with so if there is a slightly better way it would be great to fix this.
Imagine if you were preseted the first time to the settings window, someone just handed you the ipad with this last settings window jpg example and said now go to song mode and play me a song, they would have no idea how to do this as there is nothing there to clearly indicate what to do next , this is not operationally acceptable and needs attention.
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DickyDutch i noticed that immediately as well, i believe in settings 1 page turn is not actually the PDF page turn it is the screen of the view of ST3 software so basically to get a true page turn you have to zoom your PDF to a full page then you can do a full page turn on pdfs.
Thats why i drew an idea before so you can dedicate six pdfs in a song to pages with switches on screen, and then to be also able to set a timer like in Songs only mode to scroll through these six pages or perhaps 3 pages if thats your need and that way you can just hit the footpedal or page buttons on the screen and get full easy control of your PDF setup each page remembers its settings and can easily load a PDF . I know its a lot more design work but that way it would really giive you a lot more powerful system to run your pdfs as you would expect pdfs to work.
At the moment its a very basic system that requires a lot of prep work in another program that gives you limited control when performing. ITS STILL BETTER THAN NOTHING.
And technically Peter might have a easier way around it, i am only putting out ideas that would work for me on the surface of the software, i like the six page turn buttons on the dead space of the volume area this i think would be great for those using pdfs without remotes how to impliment it is another thing.
Imagine this, you load a 3 page pdf you get 3 pages in volume area representing these 3 pages single tap any page button gets you to the top of that page and allows you to then foot scroll if needed but if you have set an overall scroll time it averages all 3 pages and gives you a uniform scroll, if you then go back and hit pdf 2 it jumps to the top of that pdf and resets to that scroll that auto scroll time and keeps going as normal to end, this is exactly what Lyrics only should do and have. By selecting your pdf page it defaults to full page viiew if you zoom it remembers its settings by long press of this page button the page time settings are set automatically because it should know immediately if you have six pages and you want a 6 minute scroll time each page timestamp is going to be one minute appart and is automatically set for any number of pages you decide to use , six pages maximum for one song.
Double tap on a page opens an option window where you can delete this pdf and load another one if it has multiple pdfs it pushes all subsiguent pages forward and their settings, alowing to insert pages. Delete all to clear song and rename pdf page .
If you select a page and make a visual change a long press on this page saves the settings.
This exact same principal to be applied in Lyrics only, the only difference is you are loading pdfs instead.
Having auto scroll for pdfs would be beneficial to some users and maintains consistancy with lyrics only so it would be great to have that to standerdise operation its just then an option which way you want to do things.
Sorry Dicky didnt mean to go on in this thread but once i get ideas i need to get them down in writing otherwise they are lost its Sunday morning here in Adelaide a perfect day ahead and the creativity juices are freely flowing.
Cheers Damir