Open Beta Version 3.5.0

Damir

I have disabled the mix button in lyrics only songs as it would try to crossfade into the next song which means just a fade in. And most likely you don't want a fade in in this situation but just a normal start. So just configure your stop button to advance to the next song and there you go.
You didn’t understand my view,
And I think I found a simple answer, if you use the same logic as you have for normal operation just let the next song cue up and pause at the beginning it should not matter if it is a Lyrics only song let us then choose if we hit play it auto times out, if we use foot control and manually page turn or if we hit MIX it mixes to the new song, this simply maintains consistency in operation and more instant freedom to chose which way we can perform.
This should be determined by the previous songs settings if Auto play is enabled then Lyrics only songs should auto play at beginning if auto play is disabled then the next song being Lyrics only song should cue up and wait for start command, this is standard behaviour in ST3 and something that makes this software great for on stage performing.
I can’t change my stop/ start behaviour as I use this for pause because there is no looping function yet so it’s the next best thing to use when you involve a crowd it’s sometimes a rough way to do things but it work if your timing is good.
My mix setting is very quick so using this to start a new song is unnoticeable I have found a time sweet spot where all x fades work well.
I never use long mix outs as they don’t work with live audience on a dance floor they just want professional continuity.
So what I’m simply asking just treat Lyrics only the same as another backing track and it will be most useful for all.

peter

DickyDutch I did not receive an email.

Hshevitz I rather not change this to exactly 100 cent because this is intended as a fine tune setting. It should not lead to a change that requires transposing the chords. Originally I planned to limit it to +-50 cents but found this too limited for certain badly tuned situations. So I will add a coarse tune slider that would also transpose chords.

Damir I disagree. The crossfade button manually triggers a crossfade. A crossfade always keeps playback running. That's how it works for all song types. I will not make an exception for (playable) lyrics only songs.

I see your point with the waveform indicator. I will change it for playable lyrics only songs to thick lines.

OK, it was AudioMaster, but did you uninstall it while it was inserted as a master effect?

I can't reproduce your problem with the chords. Following example transposes just fine:

`
C G Am F

C G Am F

Note the empty lines below the chords. So please post a lyrics snippet to reproduce this issue.

Damir

The waveform indicator shows the waveform. As a lyrics only song has no waveform, it shows up as a thin line (there is no waveform).

Again you are thinking like a programmer first musician second.
Here’s a suggestion from a musicians point of view only.
Why not have a very thick orange line (I mean a solid line not a waveform full height of waveform space) moving across the screen that can be seen from a distance indicating 2 important things that you are using Lyrics only file as its orange and you can roughly see where you are in your live performance at a large distance. Using a very thin line that indicates it’s not an audio file makes no on stage sense you can’t see it anyway so what’s the point.
It is ok if you are at home editing and your face is glued to the screen.

Damir

peter it was Audio Master as Demo

Damir

And regarding chord transpose: Stage Traxx will only transpose chords it identifies as chords. So if you are placing chords into a line above your lyrics, these chords will only be transposed if this line is detected as a chord line and marked in the chord color in the lyrics view. So if any of your chords are not transposed, you most likely use an unrecognized format for chords.

Peter, yes I am aware of the requirements and my chord lines are all correct and working as expected.
What I am experiencing is that using pitch shifting a song on the two new buttons next to stop button is not changing the chords in the chord lines that have no text below them.
Yet it is updating the chords that have text below them.
All the chords are the same and there are no extra characters etc.
The song plays through with all colour and highlights as expected but the chord lines that are on their own like the intro, solo chord lines do not update when pitch shifting.

Damir

I can't reproduce your problem with the chords. Following example transposes just fine:

peter I can't reproduce your problem with the chords. Following example transposes just fine:

I think I found the reason I don’t know if it can be fixed as I am finding this method of chord time coding very useful for intros and solos.

Multiple timecode s on one line are the issue.
It’s a pity, time coding seems to be a major pain in the but to give us good end results for a number of reasons .

Hshevitz

Coarse slider...excellent! Luv it! I don't know about others, but it will make my life easier! Thx!

DickyDutch

Hi Peter - At the moment using my iPad in the portrait position and ‘hide playlist’ button selected I am able to shrink the PDF lyrics (using a pinch gesture) so that the full A4 page is displayed and not cut off at the bottom as the default seems to be set at the moment. I can then turn each page up or down by tapping the screen either on the right or left. Great! Being able to page manually works better for me than inserting PDF scroll commands in the lyrics for various personal reasons. The problem I now have is when I’ve finished the song and close it when I return later my previous settings been lost and I have to start again. I currently use the app UnrealBook for lyrics only songs and that works as I’ve just described - it remembers the settings. For obvious reasons I would like only to use STAGETRAXX. Is it possible to make STAGETRAXX remember these settings please?
By the way I think what you’ve done so far with the new PDF feature is superb but for me not quite there yet.

peter

DickyDutch So do you suggest the zoom factor to be stored for each pdf file seperately or as a global preference for all pdf files?

Damir Tapping on the clock already has actions attached to it. The setlist timer will reset to zero and the song timer will switch between elapsed and remaining time. I like all settings to be in one place and I will not change that.

Damir

Hi Peter, regarding show elapsed time on left and remaining on right, yes it works, BUT now that i have played with this area of ST3 i realized its another unnecessary dogs breakfast and could be so much more user friendly to setup and reduce the clutter in the settings.
I would not have CLOCK SETTINGS in preferences at all as it should be as simple as hit either clock window left or right and choose the apropriate setting ST3 remembers it and thats it, why have to go to settings,user interface, clock settings, then make a choice, But to complicate it more the right clock window is not the same so you have the easy way on right without all options and the complicated way on left with all options, it does not make sense.
Another question regarding left clock is you have QUEU END now i dont use queue and have disabled it, this setting is probably fine if using queue i have not tested it yet but it would be nice to have PLAYLIST END as well.

So the logic should be simple, both clock windows behave the same its the users choice to what they put on left or right clock windows, all clock options are available on both sides so you can choose any option combination you like on either side and it gets remembered .If Queue is not used this option gets dropped in the clock window if you use queue and playlists if you are using this setting it automatically changes the clock to whatever you are using.

NO NEED FOR LABORIOUS SEARCHES THROUGH SETTINGS, THE CLUTTERED SETTINGS BECOME LESS CLUTERED MUCH SIMPLER FOR END USER AND ALL IS HAPPY TO ROCK & ROLL.

BENEFITS
simple, fast,logical,easier to explain to users in manual almost unnecessary. etc etc

DickyDutch

A zoom factor for each pdf would suit me best but of course other users might also prefer a global one. Would it be easy to you provide both please?

peter

DickyDutch So, I tried different things and I am not sure which approach to the zoom factor would work best:

Having a per song zoom factor only works for a specific device and screen orientation. So if you set the zoom factor either to match the full height or width and then rotate the screen or show/hide the queue, this zoom factor does not fit any more.
A setting to specify whether you would like to see a pdf with full width or full height could automatically work in all orientations but it would not persist any manual zoom changes.

Combining both does not work.

So I am not sure any longer if option 1 is really the best solution. Maybe option 2 is preferable in most cases. That's also what forScore and Bandhelper are doing.

Damir Making lyrics only songs react to transpose pedal commands or assignable buttons can be done. But changing the speed not so much as the virtual playback is using a realtime clock to determine the play progress.

peter

No, it is either pdf based or global. I myself would also prefer a pdf based setting.

Damir

LYRICS ONLY observation
Its great the way you can bounce between normal backing tracks and Lyrics only tracks and i understand the two should operate very similarly, what i would like to see in Lyrics only is for pitch shift and speed to also have effect in this mode, the reason being is as you go fully live with Lyrics only you might want to continue in the same key as the previous song and the new song is in the wrong key a quick foot tap or on screen touch puts you in to the correct key visually, this is just one reason but there are others.
The Speed change would also be very handy, i know its not a real audio track but if there is a way to use this to vary the scroll it would be a great benefit so you can fine tune your scrolling on the run , i really would not want SCROLL SPEED control as this means more foot pedal buttons required, using speed control maintains consistancy between the two types of files.
I dont know if it is possible but it would keep things very consistant and user friendly.

DickyDutch

As you say option 2 would probably work best but I would need to confirm this by testing. Basically I want to be able to obtain the largest view that the screen will permit of the complete A4 pdf sheet(s) without having keep resizing each time I open the song. I think many other users will want the same. Peter I leave it in your very expert hands to find a workable solution. Many thanks. Oh one other thing being able to turn the pages via a midi/air turn pedal would be icing on the cake.

peter

DickyDutch Oh one other thing being able to turn the pages via a midi/air turn pedal would be icing on the cake.

Already possible. The scroll pedal commands (and buttons) work in lyrics and pdfs.

Either I am using PDF or plain text lyrics. What would be the use case for adding both to a song and needing to switch back and forth?

Damir

PDF feature first impression and honest feedback, Time consuming for little reward as it is but i am sure it can be improved, reasons.

Ive spent some time creating a PDF so i could test this function i used PDF EXPERT which was time consuming and i didnt get a finished product i wanted as it was to awkward but thats not ST3 fault.
Then i exported this PDF to ST3beta which was not successful initially as the PDF standard file name out of PDF Expert was not suitable for ST3 i then renamed the file and sucessfully got it in ST3 PDF folder, i then sucessfully loaded it in to ST3 PDF Document as i started my lyrics only song the pdf opened and was displayed , the control of zoom is very limited and clumsy if your information is centralized in the PDF file you are not going to be able to zoom in on this as the left side of the pdf is favoured and pulls everything that way meaning you are not seeing the info you want.

My other main concearn is once you load a PDF file it takes preference over the Text edit file and you can not quickly switch between the two the only way is to delete the PDF, this is a big problem, because some people might have their lyrics in text edit with auto scroll but also have a PDF notation version, this forces them to make a choice one or the other .
I need to play around a lot more to give precise feedback but as a quick first look at first 10 minute glance it is not ready for live performance it needs polish.
Lyrics only on the other hand is qute usable on stage as it is.
As i probably wont be a PDF user i will only comment on things i see a major issues and havent been picked up by anyone and leave the nitty gritty stuff to the guys that will be using it heavily.

DickyDutch

Hi Damir I find the easiest way to create a pdf doc is to use the ms WORD app via the send copy, then pdf, then save to files function. I then import to the relevant song in STAGETRAXX. It’s quite easy.

Damir

DickyDutch

DickyDutch Thanks Dicky, i will try this software is it available on ipad i think i have word on ipad which i havent used much i just use notepad for lyrics or the ST3 editor directly as its the fastest way to finish a song so far.

DickyDutch

peter I did wonder if the page scroll commands worked on both text and pdf lyrics. I am currently not in the U.K. and don’t have my BlueBoard pedal with me to try. Perfect.
Agree with you I can’t see any user wanting to use both text and pdf lyrics - it will be one or the other but not both.

Damir

peter Either I am using PDF or plain text lyrics. What would be the use case for adding both to a song and needing to switch back and forth?

Sorry guys i totally disagree with this logic as it is limiting the software unnecessarily to be used in many different ways.
Heres one example i have always planned one day when ST3 is fully complete i was going to use it as my lyrics storage software. Lyrics only would be perfect for that as it also could work great with lyrics with chords so if i transposed the songs my lyrics chords would change i could then save that as a new file to be used in many ways, this is functionality at its best, but i see that PDFs are useful for others and possibly me as well but not at the expense of loosing Lyrics only function.The beauty of Lyrics only is you can easily copy and paste to and from backing tracks so creating files that are manipulated differently when live performing.
I also see the potentioal of PDFs but by introducing a pdf file so i can perform in a different way gets rid of my Lyrisc only file which i am also relying on for different reasons, i dont want PDFs to interfere with my Lyrics only files which i might need to copy and paste in to for numerous reasons.
I really dont understand why it was implemented in such a way to reduce full potential of both.
Surely it can be implemented in such a way its an addition to a way we work.
I would rather you then keep PDF functionality out of Lyrics only and introduced it as another option in ADD SONGS window and call it Create PDF Song totaly seperate to Lyrics only.
MY LOGIC.
Create Lyrics only song - means LYRICS ONLY SONG not notation or any other pdf capability so why have it there to cofuse us and hide pdf function so far its hard to find.

Create PDF Song - should be in ADD SONGS like Create MULTITRACK song , THIS IS WHERE IT BELONGS.

I know technically it means its a totaly new file and now we have 3 of the same name files performing 3 different ways but i rather have that as its logical and doasnt interfere with lyrics only than loosing one to have the other when i really need both.

PDFs have anvantages and disadvantages simple page turning is easy and useful for those loose free runing performances, but not so great if you change key and your chords and notation remains unchanged on screen.This is why having option to freely run the show and bounce easily between all of the three methods is very important.

I have not had the time to completely break down all reasons but my gut feeling is its not correct it needs better implementation to maximise usfulness to everyone not just PDF users.

I always imagined to be able to have the same song presented in 4 ways
Stereo backing
Multitrack backing
Lyrics only with chords capability
PDF as full notation of song
And all of these to be easily and instantly acessible in song list.

After all these thoughts Peter as you said simple answer is just use one method perhaps thats the easiest way out i will just stick with Lyrics only and ignore PDF function and see how it ends up and if i can use it usefully as i dont really need notation and lyrics only is faster and more flexible to me.

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