• Beta

  • Open Beta Version 3.4.0

Does this happen when all tracks are routed to the same audio interface or only when tracks are playing through different interfaces? In the latter case, this is something I don't think I can fix. In iOS I have no control over the individual output latency when using different interfaces.

Is it maybe related to aux and main routing? If yes, do you have the master eq or any other master effect active? This could introduce some latency between main and aux tracks.

Im not using any interface at this stage, only a converter from the lightning port (the charging port) to a headphone
output converter, and the extra output is the ipads actual headphone out.
in a further post after this one i heard better latency with the click and the count (they were almost perfect)
when i only used a single output.

I spoke to a friend earlier and he has the camera kit (lightning to USB) he will lend it to me and i could then check
properly with my digital mixer (UI24R - similar to the AIR XR you have)

in any case, using the ipad like i described above rather than an interface is WAY WAY better for me, especially
as sometimes i use my mixer for broadcast (facebook etc) and us the USB port on the mixer to hook up to my mac.

so using the ipad with the ligtning to headphone out converter essentially turns the ipad into a 4 output device.
if you could get it to work even just a little better it would be lovely 😃

Also some questions about your tracks: which file format are you using? mono/stereo? samplerate? all the same or different formats?

stereo MP3 (i think 320kbs) only

Yes please, that would help. When you move the app to the background, the audio engine is stopped. That would explain why the buzz stops. But I can't reproduce that. For me the output is absolutely clear.

if you get on of these (very cheap) converters you will be able to do the same
i have this one but the generic
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter

Do you maybe have a plugin active on the master effect?

no, and in fact until i read through this beta thread i never even knew there are plugins for ipad.
also the EQ on the master was diactivated

it sounds so much like a laptop earth issue (i think every working musician knows that sound)
i would only think its something to do with the cabling, but i did try different ones.
ill record the sound and upload for you, sure.
also when i touch the screen the noise changes and i follows my touch so i dont know
if its earth problem or app problem.
will definitely investigate further to make sure its nothing on your end.

These settings are stored to the database when you close the multitrack window or when you quit the app. I couldn't reproduce it in any way. Maybe you could explain with step by step instructions how to reproduce this.

i treat this section as i did right from working with ST2:
i load up a song (in this case i create a new multitrack song - and add the audio files) make a new playlist, add the song to the list
and then go to song edit.
when i use pan, volume, EQ changes, they work fine.
when i shut down the app, (completely) and load the app again, the parameters ive changed SHOW me
that they visually have stayed like i edited them but in fact all the pan vol and EQ setting go back to default.

then i dont even need to (for instance) make changes in those settings, its enough that i touch
one of the faders and the changes i made reflect again BUT ONLY those ive touched.
those i didnt remain playing default setting although they seem to be placed right.
for instance, my click track is panned to the left and routed to the AUX output.
when i reload the app the fader still is pulled all the way to the left but the click is
actually playing both left and right outputs (i know because im using the bass also on AUX panned right)
only when i touch that fader (although not moving it actually) the sound of the click is running properly ONLY
to the left.

sorry i type plenty 🙂 i wasnt born speaking english so i blabber 🙂

i can record a video for every one of the bugs you need me to no problem for sure.

This was a problem in the first beta. Please make sure you are running build 6893.

trust me i am following this thread closely, i am definitely running the latest version on both the ipads
ive tested on 🙂

i will collect the camera kit hopefully tomorrow or next day. we are in (almost) full lockdown
here in South Africa so i pretty much have loads of time to test and report to you, its both good and bad,
have time but havent worked in a month again 🙁

anything else you may need?? 🙂

    I tried uploading a vid i think its too big, almost 400Mb.
    im uploading to my youtube channel and making it unlisted, will post the link as its done.
    might take a bit im on a slow 4G line sorry.

    OK, so I could fix the routing lockups and crashes. A positive side effect is that changes to the routing are now clean in terms of no more clicks and pops.

    What remains is a crash when sample rate changes while changing the audio interface. So if you connect an interface that only supports 48kHz while playing audio with 44kHz on the current audio output, the app will crash and I have currently no idea why.

    Sharonzaz if you get on of these (very cheap) converters you will be able to do the same
    i have this one but the generic

    The original Apple converter is currently hard to get. Amazon expect delivery late August. So I ordered a converter from Anker. Should be here on Monday. Let's see if I can reproduce the issue with it.

    Sharonzaz when i use pan, volume, EQ changes, they work fine.
    when i shut down the app, (completely) and load the app again, the parameters ive changed SHOW me
    that they visually have stayed like i edited them but in fact all the pan vol and EQ setting go back to default.

    OK, now I can reproduce the problem. Will fix it in the next beta. No need for a video now.

    Sharonzaz trust me i am following this thread closely, i am definitely running the latest version on both the ipads
    ive tested on 🙂

    Hm, might be a clock syncing issue. I changed something that might get rid of it. Please try again with the next beta version after Sunday.

    Sharonzaz we are in (almost) full lockdown

    What a bummer. Here in Germany it is currently fine. But numbers are already on the rise for 2 weeks. Vaccination rates are also declining and I really hope we can avoid another lockdown but I'm a bit pessimistic. Too many Antivaxxers here. So stay safe!

            Peter! I have ST3 3.3.2. How do we update to latest 3.4??? I tried refreshing my search doesnt work. Or am I early to the game?

              Hello! I meant the APPROVED ST3 on the apple store. I typically dont use Testflight anymore.

                ok i made you a vid, and while editing the vid, syncing the audio i recorded from the mixer direct to USB stick
                with the vid i took with my iphone i wanted to make sure im not crazy, and that the noise youre gonna hear on the vid from ONLY the AUX output (which is routed to the normal headphone output on the ipad) isnt there when i only use one output, no matter which one.

                so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
                however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
                went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.
                youll hear that the audio is badly out of sync but as i stop and restart the track the audio snaps back into sync.

                HOWEVER, i'd like to point out, that even though the audio is clearly in better sync with a single output
                to my tuned ear, there is still a very very slight timing issue (listen to the drums and click) with the different
                audio tracks even with one output.
                its just that i am really full of crap, being a musician and producer for so many years (39) my ears are very sensative
                and i pick up on that easily, but if thats the best the app and the technology can carry that
                is very acceptable for LIVE usage, im just pointing it out thats all 🙂

                in the first video youll be able to hear that terrible laptop earth sound coming out of AUX output
                and see the app showing the audio tracks clearly panned left and right but still upon reload they
                go back to playing default setting.

                here is the first vid
                https://youtu.be/bF46qwEQGtM
                and the second
                https://youtu.be/glwMGsDYZcg

                What a bummer. Here in Germany it is currently fine. But numbers are already on the rise for 2 weeks. Vaccination rates are also declining and I really hope we can avoid another lockdown but I'm a bit pessimistic. Too many Antivaxxers here. So stay safe!

                this is our third lockdown.
                first was a few months and slowly opened us up
                second came around xmas and ended in feb.
                this one is now a month.

                our government locks up our bars/clubs and makes selling alcohol illegal.
                so we cant work (no bar is open) restaurants also cant have alcohol and they
                dont hire musicians selling only food.

                I already had covid back in october and was lucky and got it easy.
                since then i barely had a sneeze which is surprising, i usually am sick all time time from allergies
                so it seems covid fixed me 🙂

                stay safe too, hope this info helps you.

                please check out an app called LIVETRAKER previously called STAGE TRACKER 3.
                i previously bought the latter, and he now updated and will not give new serials unless you upgrade
                to his new app (200 euros) he offered me at 50% off.....
                i was considering this until you made this beta 🙂
                hes got really nice features, perhaps overkill for ipad but maybe something to grab
                some inspiration from?

                  Sharonzaz Hi Sharon, I get a very similar buzz if I use my IPads power supply and an auxiliary to my mixer in my case it is an earth loop issue so to fix it I run my iPad on battery only and disconnect the iPads power supply.
                  This might or might not help but worth a try to eliminate another possibility.
                  Cheers Damir

                    jzavaletta Hello! I meant the APPROVED ST3 on the apple store. I typically dont use Testflight anymore.

                    If you don't want to use Testflight, you will have to wait until beta testing is finished and the final version is released on the App Store.

                    Sharonzaz so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
                    however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
                    went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.

                    Thanks for the videos. This noise does not sound like something that is generated by software. I think there must be some grounding problem with the adapter and/or headphone outputs. Could you just connect headphones to both the adapter and the headphone output so that there is no connection from the iPad to an external powered device. Do you still hear the noise?

                    Do you have a DI box with ground lift that you could use to isolate one of the outputs? I guess that could also help.

                    Regarding the timing: I created 2 test files that I have attached:

                    drumtest1-inverted.m4a
                    334kB
                    drumtest1.m4a
                    334kB

                    Both files are the same drum loop but on one I have inverted the phase. If you create a new multitrack song and add them to two tracks with no EQ, center pan and volume on 0 and you have no custom adjustments on the global EQ, you will hear nothing when you play the song because due to the inverted phase they cancel out each other.

                    When there is even a 1 sample deviation between those tracks you will hear sound.

                    Now with this I have found an issue when starting playback. It seems like the start of the playback is not always in sync. Depending on the device this does seem to happen more or less frequently. I have an idea how to fix this but this will only work if all tracks have the same sample rate.

                    So please feel free to use these files to check for synchronous playback with the new version tomorrow.

                        Oh and I forgot: This big sync issue after connecting/disconnecting is indeed something I am aware of. I know it can happen in this case but the only way I found to prevent it is to stop playback every time a connect or disconnect is detected. But as it happens only sometimes, I decided against this approach. I'm not sure what other apps do in this case but at least logic stops completely if an audio interface is disconnected. But this could be fatal in a live environment.

                        Could you just connect headphones to both the adapter and the headphone output so that there is no connection from the iPad to an external powered device.

                        I literally thought of this as i went to bed last night. will try this soon.

                        when i connected both outputs into my mixer with the charger yes there was noise and when
                        i removed the normal headphone output there was some serious ground loop until i removed
                        the charger itself, but what you heard on the video was without the charger plugged in.

                        honestly, if i need to in the end, when i cant use my mixer with the camera kit, and have to
                        use the two outputs using the converter ill just use the AUX for click and use the DOCK output
                        for everything else, i just love having the bass come out also separately, it gives me extra control
                        over it, but in the end it is what it is, if its some internal issue with the ipad(s) ill make
                        the best of it 🙂
                        i prefer using stereo in gigs (its mostly bars/clubs/events where my PA is rather close to me
                        and the listeners get the full stereo experience. especially better for me
                        when i use a band (drummer-bassist) and i use my in ears and have to also mix from stage
                        i get the output in my ears and get a full picture of the sound, its quite lovely
                        having it in stereo.

                        I will also try experimenting with different cabling, grounding etc and see what can work
                        and report back with a solution should i find one, i love having these challenges and love
                        working them out 🙂

                        When there is even a 1 sample deviation between those tracks you will hear sound.

                        great thanks, will try this shortly, i guess i was tired yesterday, i should have thought about
                        reversed phase by myself 🙂

                        I wanted to also add, for many years i have dreamed about being
                        able to take out the 4 counts before every track from the main PA and only have it
                        run in my in ears. (while keeping the tracks stereo)

                        for that all i have to do is run all my tracks with an added short file with the count in coming
                        out of the AUX and silence the count in the track file. for that alone this app is worth
                        all the money you charge and even triple that.
                        so if theres a ground loop noise ONLY in my in ears - so be it 🙂

                        Ok I can confirm the following

                        1- there is ZERO noise when connecting two sets of headphones WITH OR WITHOUT the charger itself.

                        2- even using one headphone and the other output to the mixer introduced noise that got worse with the charger, I didn’t try the Apple power brick I have a 5v usb on my wall plug, perhaps that’s also an issue. Will try with the Apple brick but I will commit myself to solving this issue as I’m loving this option of directly plugging the iPad to my mixer with no interface USB etc.

                        Do you have a DI box with ground lift that you could use to isolate one of the outputs? I guess that could also help.

                        OK so problem solved! actually two problems:

                        I plugged just the one AUX out (for click) into my mixer using a DI lifting the ground that way and boom,
                        earth noise GONE! 🙂

                        also, to power the ipad i used a cable directly from my wall using the usb 5V out of the wall unit.
                        when i plugged the apple power brick in, that awful ground noise is now completely gone.
                        theres a slight self noise hiss from the ipad, most electrical devices
                        have enough self noise anyhow so that can be dealt with using a slight noise gate 🙂

                        I AM SO HAPPY I COULD BREAKDANCE but my back and bones are not gonna be happy 😛

                        am going to pick up the camera kit later this afternoon and report back on how that works
                        but Peter, I cant wait to implement this new version to use
                        thank you

                        Oh and I forgot: This big sync issue after connecting/disconnecting is indeed something I am aware of. I know it can happen in this case but the only way I found to prevent it is to stop playback every time a connect or disconnect is detected. But as it happens only sometimes, I decided against this approach. I'm not sure what other apps do in this case but at least logic stops completely if an audio interface is disconnected. But this could be fatal in a live environment.

                        you are right, i guess it just happened as i was messing around trying to troubleshoot the issues with noise etc.
                        no one in their right mind would plug or unplug audio channels in the middle of a gig 🙂

                        Bo

                        th files are the same drum loop but on one I have inverted the phase. If you create a new multitrack song and add them to two tracks with no EQ, center pan and volume on 0 and you have no custom adjustments on the global EQ, you will hear nothing when you play the song because due to the inverted phase they cancel out each other.

                        sadly i have to report that im hearing the files play loud and clear not only when used on both
                        outputs but also one stereo output and even without plugging the ipad in, just with its built in speaker.
                        when using one output it sounds like its phasing badly, like a chorus type effect.

                        also, as yesterday i updated my ipad to ios14 and the crashes stopped, for some reason
                        now as i was experimenting with this drum files you gave me if i change the routing the app immediately crashes.
                        i suppose if that isnt fixable its fine, i dont change routing during a gig only before a gig as needed so...

                        i guess that a very small latency isn't the end of the world. it'll great if you could get a sample accurate sync
                        but if thats too much to ask an ipad to do, so be it. i used to have a DAW app on my first ipad, cant rememebr
                        the name and really cant rememebr how well it performed. its a ipad, its as good as it can be
                        and i suppose expecting it to perform like a $2000 mac with a $500 sound card may be
                        too much to ask for?
                        you already got so much out of it, perhaps to expect more is rather selfish of us?

                        I can always compensate by pulling the click back a sample or two in the DAW 🙂

                          Sharonzaz I think everything will be fixed by tomorrow. So please try again once the new build is released.

                              peter

                              Honestly I can’t wait to try it out! 🤟

                              (And I’ve got the camera kit so will also try with my mixer connected)

                              FYI, I used a little gating (actually more like noise reduction gating) on the tracks after I fixed the ground loop earth leakage) and the iPad on its own playing four tracks outputs beautifully and clean and clear!

                                Just a FYI I am testing now with the camera kit and it works great 😊

                                New build 6944

                                Some unexpected but necessary heavy focus on the multitrack audio part in this update. Hopefully the issues are now resolved.

                                Added

                                • New option to disable lyrics highlighting when playback is stopped

                                Changed

                                • Playback is stopped and audio engine is restarted when "Combine USB & Headphones" is active and a device is connected or disconnected
                                • Changing font size in network client will now automatically remember a modification multiplier that will be used for all songs. That way you most likely only need to change the size once and this setting should also work fine for other songs.
                                • View will automatically scroll to newly inserted items in song list and playlist overview
                                • Disabled delete action for multitrack files in player view
                                • Text corrections

                                Fixed

                                • Possible crash when changing multitrack routing
                                • Crash when connecting an audio interface with different sample rate than currently used
                                • Tracks not playing in sync
                                • Wrong time and song position displayed after switching to audio interface with different sample rate
                                • Track equaliser and pan settings not loaded properly on multitrack songs
                                • Changes to trim of active song only take effect after swithing to another song
                                • Table header sometimes jumping around in the song list
                                • Highlighting of active and next song in playlist