Open Beta Version 3.4.0

Damir

I don't think this fits together with this setting. But I will create a separate setting and then you can decide for yourself how it should behave. Maybe a setting named "Highlight lyrics when stopped" is the correct way to do it.

I thought my idea was perfect as no extra switches were needed, its the state of the existing waveform switch that determines which logic is used so if its off it means you are not using the sweep function and the first line is not highlighted, but if you turn on waveform scroll the logic goes back to acomodate that and it just works without anyone needing to do anything.Plus as i said before it acts as a warning that if you get on stage and you cue your first song if the first line is immediately highlighted you will know you have forgotten to turn off the waveform scroll, a win, win, win with nothing extra to tweak.
Now how to achieve this i have no clue.
Or perhaps someone else has a better solution.

Damir

@"peter"#p4774Ok i didnt explain properly again,
Ok say i have a 10.5 inch ipad host an iphone and a 12.5 inch ipad pro.
Say all my lyrics are set to 40 , a method to offset this setting so if i hook up to a 12.5 inch ipad i can change the offset say to 50 as it has more screen realestate, or if i have an iphone i can set the offset to 30 so it fits the lyrics to suit the smaller realestate, i might change the client devices to landscape or potrait but by having this offset adjustment it would allow a once off tweak and all is perfect for ever more for that session.
Perhaps this adjustment is needed to be done on the clients so each client can suit themselves depending on the device they have.
At the momemt there is no control, what you get is what you get, and you dont want to tweak your host to suit the client because the clients screens are different.
So perhaps a scroll wheel where 0 is normal and going up by -ve ? Amount it shrinks the lyrics by that set amount for all lyrics and by going + ve ? Amount it Increases the offset size.

This then would work in any combination, say you had the iphone as the host , you just increase the offset text to suit on the client Ipads 9.5 10.5 12.5.
I believe It makes a lot of sense and is something the more people that start using ST3 will want to do as they realise the softwares huge user potential like i have.

peter

Damir OK, I will think about something but not for version 3.4.0.

Damir

Hi Peter, here in Adelaide we are in a Covid lockdown for 7 days so watchout, you might get bombarded with problems hopefully tiny ones.

I might have reported this already but jus in case here it is again

peter

Yes you mentioned that a couple of pages up. On my devices it only happens on the "Songs" tab. Queue, History and Playlists are fine. It seems to be related to the alphabetical section headers. In any case it will be fixed in the next beta version on sunday.

Sharonzaz

Ok I found some issues on my version I’ll try explain them and if I fail to explain I’ll make a vid

1- not all tracks seem to be playing “exactly” on time.
While it may not be too noticeable with musical tracks I have both a click track and an count in track and they are way out of sync, in the app, not in the daw.
And when I say way I mean you could hear it easy. Enough to annoy me 🤪

2- while you may not have intended the app to work this way, I tried it like that and it “somehow” works, but not great. I’ll explain:

I wanted to first experiment a little before i go spend some good money on the camera kit (lighting to USB- I have the UI24R mixer) and thought I’ll try using a lightning to headphones adapter that would free up my headphones to be the AUX output.
It doesn’t work with every dock I have (3 of them) but eventually after plugging the one in then the other, unplugged the one and plug back I got it to identify both as working outputs! Great stuff!
However when the app is running (not when I minimize to background) there’s something like an earth buzz similar to those when you plug a laptop into a mixer and it needs to be earthed, not exactly but similar. I can record that and upload so you can hear.
Quite annoying and I’ve tried different cabling etc etc.
It might be an inherent issue with the iPad itself however I’d think that the lightning output “should” be regarded as a digital out, so when I click the combine outputs it does see both and use both nicely besides the annoying sound.

3- the app on my side does not remember routing and volume changes i make while working/playing back a song. As soon as I close the app completely the iPad still plays all the tracks back in default vol and pan even if i just use the one stereo output and also when I combine them (tried both).

5- the app crashes a lot when I try changing the output assignment in the routing option (off/main/aux). It may not crash immediately but every time I tried changing the assignments for any of the track while a song is playing it either hangs (nothing works anymore I can only terminate the app by minimizing) or it just crashes completely.

6- the visual wave generator doesn’t always show progress at all or shows the wrong place (like I’m at the end of the song but the progress is in the the first part of the song?) or it doesn’t show progress at all, like I haven’t pressed play at all.

7- one time (not sure what I did) the track sounded like every file played from a different place completely (like the piano was three bars forward/drums two bars behind etc - very badly out of timing).

I think that’s all for now I wasn’t busy with it too long.

I have to note:
The iPad is rather recent, I think it’s the 6 or 7 gen
But I am running iOS12 point something so to be fair I’m busy updating it and will revert back if anything has changed.

I have a few other iPads but they are older, will try them too just to make sure.

I have to commend you for this huge effort you are making!!!
Not only you have the (only) best app in the world for our kind of work on mobile devices, you are now competing with apps that were only available on mac/pc before, this is unheard of progress and I’m sure you will polish all the kinks out of it and when it’s done you will have desktop quality app on iPad. It’s remarkable!

Let me know if you want me to try anything a little differently on my side to help you out.
🙏

peter

Thanks @Sharonzaz for the great feedback. This is exactly what we need to focus on in this beta version 🙂

Sharonzaz not all tracks seem to be playing “exactly” on time.
While it may not be too noticeable with musical tracks I have both a click track and an count in track and they are way out of sync, in the app, not in the daw.

Does this happen when all tracks are routed to the same audio interface or only when tracks are playing through different interfaces? In the latter case, this is something I don't think I can fix. In iOS I have no control over the individual output latency when using different interfaces.

Is it maybe related to aux and main routing? If yes, do you have the master eq or any other master effect active? This could introduce some latency between main and aux tracks.

Can you maybe post a screenshot of your routing screen?

Also some questions about your tracks: which file format are you using? mono/stereo? samplerate? all the same or different formats?

Sharonzaz However when the app is running (not when I minimize to background) there’s something like an earth buzz similar to those when you plug a laptop into a mixer and it needs to be earthed, not exactly but similar. I can record that and upload so you can hear.

Yes please, that would help. When you move the app to the background, the audio engine is stopped. That would explain why the buzz stops. But I can't reproduce that. For me the output is absolutely clear. Do you maybe have a plugin active on the master effect? I know that some plugins like for example tape simulations create a buzz sound even when no audio is playing.

Sharonzaz he app on my side does not remember routing and volume changes i make while working/playing back a song. As soon as I close the app completely the iPad still plays all the tracks back in default vol and pan

These settings are stored to the database when you close the multitrack window or when you quit the app. I couldn't reproduce it in any way. Maybe you could explain with step by step instructions how to reproduce this.

Sharonzaz the app crashes a lot when I try changing the output assignment in the routing option (off/main/aux).

I managed to make the app hang while changing the outputs on iOS12 with a connected interface. Without an interface everything is stable. On iOS14 everything seems stable even with an interface connected. I will try to debug this.

Sharonzaz the visual wave generator doesn’t always show progress at all or shows the wrong place (like I’m at the end of the song but the progress is in the the first part of the song?) or it doesn’t show progress at all, like I haven’t pressed play at all.

This was a problem in the first beta. Please make sure you are running build 6893.

Sharonzaz one time (not sure what I did) the track sounded like every file played from a different place completely (like the piano was three bars forward/drums two bars behind etc - very badly out of timing)

If you find a way to reproduce this, it would be very helpful.

Sharonzaz I found something small but a little annoying, when playing the song I click on multitrack setup.
Moving the volume or pan sliders/faders sometimes revels a delete something option and if I work fast enough it deletes the audio track

Yes, that's the swipe delete action. I have disabled file selection in the player view but forgot to disable the delete action. Will fix that.

Sharonzaz

Ok so after updating that iPad I can so far report that besides the app not crashing when I play around with the routings everything else stayed the same.

One thing i did notice because the app didn’t crash is that there’s a latency between the two outputs and that’s maybe why not everything sounds perfectly in sync 🤷‍♂️?

I also noticed that the EQ changes i make for each of the audio files is not saving, although visually for instance my drums track was boosted the bass frequency and it still showing that it’s boosted I have to physically touch the fader again and only then I can hear the EQ being boosted.

Sharonzaz

On my one other iPad, air2, also on iOS12 app crashes immediately as I touch the routing options.

There’s still quite a bit of earth laptop type noise and I narrowed it down to the headphones output and not the headphone adapter cable.

Also here the app does not save any changes i make to the volume/pan or EQ changes but visually the changes are still there, again, I need to just touch the fader and the change becomes apparent.
Am I missing something? Is there a save button?

Sharonzaz

I found something small but a little annoying, when playing the song I click on multitrack setup.
Moving the volume or pan sliders/faders sometimes revels a delete something option and if I work fast enough it deletes the audio track 🤪🤷‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

Can this option not only be avail when you’re doing the song editing only??? Not while editing in the player? 🙏

Sharonzaz

Does this happen when all tracks are routed to the same audio interface or only when tracks are playing through different interfaces? In the latter case, this is something I don't think I can fix. In iOS I have no control over the individual output latency when using different interfaces.

Is it maybe related to aux and main routing? If yes, do you have the master eq or any other master effect active? This could introduce some latency between main and aux tracks.

Im not using any interface at this stage, only a converter from the lightning port (the charging port) to a headphone
output converter, and the extra output is the ipads actual headphone out.
in a further post after this one i heard better latency with the click and the count (they were almost perfect)
when i only used a single output.

I spoke to a friend earlier and he has the camera kit (lightning to USB) he will lend it to me and i could then check
properly with my digital mixer (UI24R - similar to the AIR XR you have)

in any case, using the ipad like i described above rather than an interface is WAY WAY better for me, especially
as sometimes i use my mixer for broadcast (facebook etc) and us the USB port on the mixer to hook up to my mac.

so using the ipad with the ligtning to headphone out converter essentially turns the ipad into a 4 output device.
if you could get it to work even just a little better it would be lovely 😃

Also some questions about your tracks: which file format are you using? mono/stereo? samplerate? all the same or different formats?

stereo MP3 (i think 320kbs) only

Yes please, that would help. When you move the app to the background, the audio engine is stopped. That would explain why the buzz stops. But I can't reproduce that. For me the output is absolutely clear.

if you get on of these (very cheap) converters you will be able to do the same
i have this one but the generic
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter

Do you maybe have a plugin active on the master effect?

no, and in fact until i read through this beta thread i never even knew there are plugins for ipad.
also the EQ on the master was diactivated

it sounds so much like a laptop earth issue (i think every working musician knows that sound)
i would only think its something to do with the cabling, but i did try different ones.
ill record the sound and upload for you, sure.
also when i touch the screen the noise changes and i follows my touch so i dont know
if its earth problem or app problem.
will definitely investigate further to make sure its nothing on your end.

These settings are stored to the database when you close the multitrack window or when you quit the app. I couldn't reproduce it in any way. Maybe you could explain with step by step instructions how to reproduce this.

i treat this section as i did right from working with ST2:
i load up a song (in this case i create a new multitrack song - and add the audio files) make a new playlist, add the song to the list
and then go to song edit.
when i use pan, volume, EQ changes, they work fine.
when i shut down the app, (completely) and load the app again, the parameters ive changed SHOW me
that they visually have stayed like i edited them but in fact all the pan vol and EQ setting go back to default.

then i dont even need to (for instance) make changes in those settings, its enough that i touch
one of the faders and the changes i made reflect again BUT ONLY those ive touched.
those i didnt remain playing default setting although they seem to be placed right.
for instance, my click track is panned to the left and routed to the AUX output.
when i reload the app the fader still is pulled all the way to the left but the click is
actually playing both left and right outputs (i know because im using the bass also on AUX panned right)
only when i touch that fader (although not moving it actually) the sound of the click is running properly ONLY
to the left.

sorry i type plenty 🙂 i wasnt born speaking english so i blabber 🙂

i can record a video for every one of the bugs you need me to no problem for sure.

This was a problem in the first beta. Please make sure you are running build 6893.

trust me i am following this thread closely, i am definitely running the latest version on both the ipads
ive tested on 🙂

i will collect the camera kit hopefully tomorrow or next day. we are in (almost) full lockdown
here in South Africa so i pretty much have loads of time to test and report to you, its both good and bad,
have time but havent worked in a month again 🙁

anything else you may need?? 🙂

peter

OK, so I could fix the routing lockups and crashes. A positive side effect is that changes to the routing are now clean in terms of no more clicks and pops.

What remains is a crash when sample rate changes while changing the audio interface. So if you connect an interface that only supports 48kHz while playing audio with 44kHz on the current audio output, the app will crash and I have currently no idea why.

Sharonzaz if you get on of these (very cheap) converters you will be able to do the same
i have this one but the generic

The original Apple converter is currently hard to get. Amazon expect delivery late August. So I ordered a converter from Anker. Should be here on Monday. Let's see if I can reproduce the issue with it.

Sharonzaz when i use pan, volume, EQ changes, they work fine.
when i shut down the app, (completely) and load the app again, the parameters ive changed SHOW me
that they visually have stayed like i edited them but in fact all the pan vol and EQ setting go back to default.

OK, now I can reproduce the problem. Will fix it in the next beta. No need for a video now.

Sharonzaz trust me i am following this thread closely, i am definitely running the latest version on both the ipads
ive tested on 🙂

Hm, might be a clock syncing issue. I changed something that might get rid of it. Please try again with the next beta version after Sunday.

Sharonzaz we are in (almost) full lockdown

What a bummer. Here in Germany it is currently fine. But numbers are already on the rise for 2 weeks. Vaccination rates are also declining and I really hope we can avoid another lockdown but I'm a bit pessimistic. Too many Antivaxxers here. So stay safe!

Sharonzaz

I tried uploading a vid i think its too big, almost 400Mb.
im uploading to my youtube channel and making it unlisted, will post the link as its done.
might take a bit im on a slow 4G line sorry.

jzavaletta

Peter! I have ST3 3.3.2. How do we update to latest 3.4??? I tried refreshing my search doesnt work. Or am I early to the game?

peter

jzavaletta Look at the first posting on top of this thread.

jzavaletta

Hello! I meant the APPROVED ST3 on the apple store. I typically dont use Testflight anymore.

peter

jzavaletta Hello! I meant the APPROVED ST3 on the apple store. I typically dont use Testflight anymore.

If you don't want to use Testflight, you will have to wait until beta testing is finished and the final version is released on the App Store.

Sharonzaz so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.

Thanks for the videos. This noise does not sound like something that is generated by software. I think there must be some grounding problem with the adapter and/or headphone outputs. Could you just connect headphones to both the adapter and the headphone output so that there is no connection from the iPad to an external powered device. Do you still hear the noise?

Do you have a DI box with ground lift that you could use to isolate one of the outputs? I guess that could also help.

Regarding the timing: I created 2 test files that I have attached:

drumtest1-inverted.m4a

334kB

drumtest1.m4a

334kB

Both files are the same drum loop but on one I have inverted the phase. If you create a new multitrack song and add them to two tracks with no EQ, center pan and volume on 0 and you have no custom adjustments on the global EQ, you will hear nothing when you play the song because due to the inverted phase they cancel out each other.

When there is even a 1 sample deviation between those tracks you will hear sound.

Now with this I have found an issue when starting playback. It seems like the start of the playback is not always in sync. Depending on the device this does seem to happen more or less frequently. I have an idea how to fix this but this will only work if all tracks have the same sample rate.

So please feel free to use these files to check for synchronous playback with the new version tomorrow.

Sharonzaz

ok i made you a vid, and while editing the vid, syncing the audio i recorded from the mixer direct to USB stick
with the vid i took with my iphone i wanted to make sure im not crazy, and that the noise youre gonna hear on the vid from ONLY the AUX output (which is routed to the normal headphone output on the ipad) isnt there when i only use one output, no matter which one.

so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.
youll hear that the audio is badly out of sync but as i stop and restart the track the audio snaps back into sync.

HOWEVER, i'd like to point out, that even though the audio is clearly in better sync with a single output
to my tuned ear, there is still a very very slight timing issue (listen to the drums and click) with the different
audio tracks even with one output.
its just that i am really full of crap, being a musician and producer for so many years (39) my ears are very sensative
and i pick up on that easily, but if thats the best the app and the technology can carry that
is very acceptable for LIVE usage, im just pointing it out thats all 🙂

in the first video youll be able to hear that terrible laptop earth sound coming out of AUX output
and see the app showing the audio tracks clearly panned left and right but still upon reload they
go back to playing default setting.

here is the first vid
https://youtu.be/bF46qwEQGtM
and the second
https://youtu.be/glwMGsDYZcg

What a bummer. Here in Germany it is currently fine. But numbers are already on the rise for 2 weeks. Vaccination rates are also declining and I really hope we can avoid another lockdown but I'm a bit pessimistic. Too many Antivaxxers here. So stay safe!

this is our third lockdown.
first was a few months and slowly opened us up
second came around xmas and ended in feb.
this one is now a month.

our government locks up our bars/clubs and makes selling alcohol illegal.
so we cant work (no bar is open) restaurants also cant have alcohol and they
dont hire musicians selling only food.

I already had covid back in october and was lucky and got it easy.
since then i barely had a sneeze which is surprising, i usually am sick all time time from allergies
so it seems covid fixed me 🙂

stay safe too, hope this info helps you.

please check out an app called LIVETRAKER previously called STAGE TRACKER 3.
i previously bought the latter, and he now updated and will not give new serials unless you upgrade
to his new app (200 euros) he offered me at 50% off.....
i was considering this until you made this beta 🙂
hes got really nice features, perhaps overkill for ipad but maybe something to grab
some inspiration from?

Damir

Sharonzaz Hi Sharon, I get a very similar buzz if I use my IPads power supply and an auxiliary to my mixer in my case it is an earth loop issue so to fix it I run my iPad on battery only and disconnect the iPads power supply.
This might or might not help but worth a try to eliminate another possibility.
Cheers Damir

peter

Oh and I forgot: This big sync issue after connecting/disconnecting is indeed something I am aware of. I know it can happen in this case but the only way I found to prevent it is to stop playback every time a connect or disconnect is detected. But as it happens only sometimes, I decided against this approach. I'm not sure what other apps do in this case but at least logic stops completely if an audio interface is disconnected. But this could be fatal in a live environment.

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