Open Beta Version 3.4.0

Sharonzaz

ok i made you a vid, and while editing the vid, syncing the audio i recorded from the mixer direct to USB stick
with the vid i took with my iphone i wanted to make sure im not crazy, and that the noise youre gonna hear on the vid from ONLY the AUX output (which is routed to the normal headphone output on the ipad) isnt there when i only use one output, no matter which one.

so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.
youll hear that the audio is badly out of sync but as i stop and restart the track the audio snaps back into sync.

HOWEVER, i'd like to point out, that even though the audio is clearly in better sync with a single output
to my tuned ear, there is still a very very slight timing issue (listen to the drums and click) with the different
audio tracks even with one output.
its just that i am really full of crap, being a musician and producer for so many years (39) my ears are very sensative
and i pick up on that easily, but if thats the best the app and the technology can carry that
is very acceptable for LIVE usage, im just pointing it out thats all 🙂

in the first video youll be able to hear that terrible laptop earth sound coming out of AUX output
and see the app showing the audio tracks clearly panned left and right but still upon reload they
go back to playing default setting.

here is the first vid
https://youtu.be/bF46qwEQGtM
and the second
https://youtu.be/glwMGsDYZcg

What a bummer. Here in Germany it is currently fine. But numbers are already on the rise for 2 weeks. Vaccination rates are also declining and I really hope we can avoid another lockdown but I'm a bit pessimistic. Too many Antivaxxers here. So stay safe!

this is our third lockdown.
first was a few months and slowly opened us up
second came around xmas and ended in feb.
this one is now a month.

our government locks up our bars/clubs and makes selling alcohol illegal.
so we cant work (no bar is open) restaurants also cant have alcohol and they
dont hire musicians selling only food.

I already had covid back in october and was lucky and got it easy.
since then i barely had a sneeze which is surprising, i usually am sick all time time from allergies
so it seems covid fixed me 🙂

stay safe too, hope this info helps you.

please check out an app called LIVETRAKER previously called STAGE TRACKER 3.
i previously bought the latter, and he now updated and will not give new serials unless you upgrade
to his new app (200 euros) he offered me at 50% off.....
i was considering this until you made this beta 🙂
hes got really nice features, perhaps overkill for ipad but maybe something to grab
some inspiration from?

Damir

Sharonzaz Hi Sharon, I get a very similar buzz if I use my IPads power supply and an auxiliary to my mixer in my case it is an earth loop issue so to fix it I run my iPad on battery only and disconnect the iPads power supply.
This might or might not help but worth a try to eliminate another possibility.
Cheers Damir

peter

jzavaletta Hello! I meant the APPROVED ST3 on the apple store. I typically dont use Testflight anymore.

If you don't want to use Testflight, you will have to wait until beta testing is finished and the final version is released on the App Store.

Sharonzaz so the conclusion is that when i use a single output there is NO laptop noise. its clear and clean.
however, as i was plugging the two outputs in and out (while i was playing the backtrack) suddenly the sync
went out completely audio, so i managed to press record (audio only) and uploaded a second quick vid for you.

Thanks for the videos. This noise does not sound like something that is generated by software. I think there must be some grounding problem with the adapter and/or headphone outputs. Could you just connect headphones to both the adapter and the headphone output so that there is no connection from the iPad to an external powered device. Do you still hear the noise?

Do you have a DI box with ground lift that you could use to isolate one of the outputs? I guess that could also help.

Regarding the timing: I created 2 test files that I have attached:

drumtest1-inverted.m4a

334kB

drumtest1.m4a

334kB

Both files are the same drum loop but on one I have inverted the phase. If you create a new multitrack song and add them to two tracks with no EQ, center pan and volume on 0 and you have no custom adjustments on the global EQ, you will hear nothing when you play the song because due to the inverted phase they cancel out each other.

When there is even a 1 sample deviation between those tracks you will hear sound.

Now with this I have found an issue when starting playback. It seems like the start of the playback is not always in sync. Depending on the device this does seem to happen more or less frequently. I have an idea how to fix this but this will only work if all tracks have the same sample rate.

So please feel free to use these files to check for synchronous playback with the new version tomorrow.

peter

Oh and I forgot: This big sync issue after connecting/disconnecting is indeed something I am aware of. I know it can happen in this case but the only way I found to prevent it is to stop playback every time a connect or disconnect is detected. But as it happens only sometimes, I decided against this approach. I'm not sure what other apps do in this case but at least logic stops completely if an audio interface is disconnected. But this could be fatal in a live environment.

Sharonzaz

Could you just connect headphones to both the adapter and the headphone output so that there is no connection from the iPad to an external powered device.

I literally thought of this as i went to bed last night. will try this soon.

when i connected both outputs into my mixer with the charger yes there was noise and when
i removed the normal headphone output there was some serious ground loop until i removed
the charger itself, but what you heard on the video was without the charger plugged in.

honestly, if i need to in the end, when i cant use my mixer with the camera kit, and have to
use the two outputs using the converter ill just use the AUX for click and use the DOCK output
for everything else, i just love having the bass come out also separately, it gives me extra control
over it, but in the end it is what it is, if its some internal issue with the ipad(s) ill make
the best of it 🙂
i prefer using stereo in gigs (its mostly bars/clubs/events where my PA is rather close to me
and the listeners get the full stereo experience. especially better for me
when i use a band (drummer-bassist) and i use my in ears and have to also mix from stage
i get the output in my ears and get a full picture of the sound, its quite lovely
having it in stereo.

I will also try experimenting with different cabling, grounding etc and see what can work
and report back with a solution should i find one, i love having these challenges and love
working them out 🙂

When there is even a 1 sample deviation between those tracks you will hear sound.

great thanks, will try this shortly, i guess i was tired yesterday, i should have thought about
reversed phase by myself 🙂

Sharonzaz

I wanted to also add, for many years i have dreamed about being
able to take out the 4 counts before every track from the main PA and only have it
run in my in ears. (while keeping the tracks stereo)

for that all i have to do is run all my tracks with an added short file with the count in coming
out of the AUX and silence the count in the track file. for that alone this app is worth
all the money you charge and even triple that.
so if theres a ground loop noise ONLY in my in ears - so be it 🙂

Sharonzaz

Ok I can confirm the following

1- there is ZERO noise when connecting two sets of headphones WITH OR WITHOUT the charger itself.

2- even using one headphone and the other output to the mixer introduced noise that got worse with the charger, I didn’t try the Apple power brick I have a 5v usb on my wall plug, perhaps that’s also an issue. Will try with the Apple brick but I will commit myself to solving this issue as I’m loving this option of directly plugging the iPad to my mixer with no interface USB etc.

Sharonzaz

Do you have a DI box with ground lift that you could use to isolate one of the outputs? I guess that could also help.

OK so problem solved! actually two problems:

I plugged just the one AUX out (for click) into my mixer using a DI lifting the ground that way and boom,
earth noise GONE! 🙂

also, to power the ipad i used a cable directly from my wall using the usb 5V out of the wall unit.
when i plugged the apple power brick in, that awful ground noise is now completely gone.
theres a slight self noise hiss from the ipad, most electrical devices
have enough self noise anyhow so that can be dealt with using a slight noise gate 🙂

I AM SO HAPPY I COULD BREAKDANCE but my back and bones are not gonna be happy 😛

am going to pick up the camera kit later this afternoon and report back on how that works
but Peter, I cant wait to implement this new version to use
thank you

Sharonzaz

Oh and I forgot: This big sync issue after connecting/disconnecting is indeed something I am aware of. I know it can happen in this case but the only way I found to prevent it is to stop playback every time a connect or disconnect is detected. But as it happens only sometimes, I decided against this approach. I'm not sure what other apps do in this case but at least logic stops completely if an audio interface is disconnected. But this could be fatal in a live environment.

you are right, i guess it just happened as i was messing around trying to troubleshoot the issues with noise etc.
no one in their right mind would plug or unplug audio channels in the middle of a gig 🙂

Sharonzaz

th files are the same drum loop but on one I have inverted the phase. If you create a new multitrack song and add them to two tracks with no EQ, center pan and volume on 0 and you have no custom adjustments on the global EQ, you will hear nothing when you play the song because due to the inverted phase they cancel out each other.

sadly i have to report that im hearing the files play loud and clear not only when used on both
outputs but also one stereo output and even without plugging the ipad in, just with its built in speaker.
when using one output it sounds like its phasing badly, like a chorus type effect.

also, as yesterday i updated my ipad to ios14 and the crashes stopped, for some reason
now as i was experimenting with this drum files you gave me if i change the routing the app immediately crashes.
i suppose if that isnt fixable its fine, i dont change routing during a gig only before a gig as needed so...

i guess that a very small latency isn't the end of the world. it'll great if you could get a sample accurate sync
but if thats too much to ask an ipad to do, so be it. i used to have a DAW app on my first ipad, cant rememebr
the name and really cant rememebr how well it performed. its a ipad, its as good as it can be
and i suppose expecting it to perform like a $2000 mac with a $500 sound card may be
too much to ask for?
you already got so much out of it, perhaps to expect more is rather selfish of us?

I can always compensate by pulling the click back a sample or two in the DAW 🙂

peter

Sharonzaz I think everything will be fixed by tomorrow. So please try again once the new build is released.

Sharonzaz

peter

Honestly I can’t wait to try it out! 🤟

(And I’ve got the camera kit so will also try with my mixer connected)

FYI, I used a little gating (actually more like noise reduction gating) on the tracks after I fixed the ground loop earth leakage) and the iPad on its own playing four tracks outputs beautifully and clean and clear!

Sharonzaz

Just a FYI I am testing now with the camera kit and it works great 😊

peter

New build 6944

Some unexpected but necessary heavy focus on the multitrack audio part in this update. Hopefully the issues are now resolved.

Added

New option to disable lyrics highlighting when playback is stopped

Changed

Playback is stopped and audio engine is restarted when "Combine USB & Headphones" is active and a device is connected or disconnected
Changing font size in network client will now automatically remember a modification multiplier that will be used for all songs. That way you most likely only need to change the size once and this setting should also work fine for other songs.
View will automatically scroll to newly inserted items in song list and playlist overview
Disabled delete action for multitrack files in player view
Text corrections

Fixed

Possible crash when changing multitrack routing
Crash when connecting an audio interface with different sample rate than currently used
Tracks not playing in sync
Wrong time and song position displayed after switching to audio interface with different sample rate
Track equaliser and pan settings not loaded properly on multitrack songs
Changes to trim of active song only take effect after swithing to another song
Table header sometimes jumping around in the song list
Highlighting of active and next song in playlist

Sharonzaz

Gonna try it right now

Sharonzaz

Ok loaded one song for now. Seems the EQ/vol changes are holding.

The sync between the tracks works great!

Had a crash every time I touched the routing options off/main/aux

Will test further and report 👍🏻

peter

Sharonzaz I see a crash report but I don't see the crashlog yet. But it should be available tomorrow I guess.

In any case, I played around quite a bit with routing changes after my fix and never once did it crash. So I'm curious why it crashes every time for you.

EDIT: I looked at another crash log and realized that it would crash if no song is loaded in the player (queue is empty). Was this the case for you?

Sharonzaz

peter

Well I can’t recall if I played with the routing with or without a song loaded sorry

But now after I have the song loaded and playing I tried again and it’s not crashing 😁

peter

OK great. Please don't try to engage solo on the EQ page with no song loaded in the queue. That would also lead to a crash when closing the EQ window.

Both these crashes will be fixed in the next update.

Sharonzaz

peter

Well so far it works great. I’m a bit tired today so I haven’t given it the full attention but it seems to run well. I’ll be running a few songs into it in the week as I can to push it a little and see how it performs

Well done Peter you’re a genius 🤟

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