Happy New Year and a Look Ahead for Stage Traxx

peter

You can see in the first screenshot 3 buttons at the bottom of the pdf. These are assignable buttons. Every command that you can trigger by a remote action can be put on screen as a dedicated button. You can also set a custom title and color for each button.

Damir

peter You can see in the first screenshot 3 buttons at the bottom of the pdf. These are assignable buttons. Every command that you can trigger by a remote action can be put on screen as a dedicated button. You can also set a custom title and color for each button.

Oh yes, I missed that , these buttons seem smaller and dangerously close to the stop/start button , is there a chance we can get more of and bigger buttons that are a bit further away from the stop/start , at the moment we have four buttons in ST3 if you include the two side buttons and two programmable buttons?

jaytrax

peter
Amazing - thank you so much, you preempted my thoughts
👌

Damir

peter Hi Peter, with ST4 having so much more straight forward control of multitracks I am thinking of going that way , I know you have mute buttons on the mixer , which would help to create a desired mix of instruments but what I was hoping fore was a quick way to solo just a track or perhaps two tracks on the run , in other words just like audio segments letting us jump around a song, having a nifty way to thin down a song in one push of a button and restore as needed.
Have you thought about this capability.
My Xair 18 and CQ18T mixers have 4 master mute buttons which can have combinations of mutes you can have programmed to do this , it would be great if the extra programable buttons could be used to also give us this capability so we can either by finger or foot mute a combination of tracks per song , let’s say I button to have drums only and another button to have piano and strings only or whatever combination you need for that song so you could simply hit the button strip down the song completely use the drums only choose the next loop and release the mute as the new loop begins introducing the other band members just like a live band.
This should be simple to setup and restore to normal setup at start of a new song , a permanent setup to be remembered when the song is in stop mode and a temporary setup if you change the settings as the song is playing.
I am still smiling every time I use the loops having the instant power to also manipulate the music instrument combination would be fantastic.
Cheers Damir

peter

I did indeed think about solo functionality and it is implemented in the song editing view. But I decided against adding a solo button to the mixer to keep the view as small as possible. But if the majority is in favour of adding a solo button at the cost of less space for lyrics, I am open to making that change.

Mute groups as assignable buttons are an interesting idea. I might add this sometimes at a later point.

peter

Disregard my last post regarding solo in the mixer. It is already there and you can see the solo button in the screenshot. I guess I am getting older and forgetting what I did a couple of months ago.

Damir

peter that’s fantastic! We are making comments before seeing the software , it’s going to be great I’m sure , you are probably exhausted by now.
Keep up the good work!

peter

Yeah, I am indeed a bit exhausted after working basically 7 days a week since going full time. But at least I can see an end on the horizon. The Beta phase will be a bit stressful though until everything is running smoothly.

Another topic: I’ve been thinking a lot about fair pricing for the app.

I want to avoid a subscription model, keep the price affordable, and still make sure ongoing development is sustainable. Here’s the idea I’d love your feedback on:

Price for new users: stays the same as version 3.
Existing users: upgrade at a reduced price (likely 30–50% off).

What you get when you buy:

A lifetime license for all current features at the time of purchase.
Plus all new features released in the following 12 months.
Bug fixes and compatibility updates for the lifetime of the app.

After 12 months:

You still keep everything you already have, forever.
If you want access to new features released after that point, you can buy an Update Pass (again at a reduced price).
This Update Pass gives you all current features plus anything released in the next 12 months.

The key point: there’s no subscription and no obligation. You can update every year, skip a few years, or never update again if you’re happy with what you have. You only pay when new features are worth it to you.

I think this strikes a good balance: fair to users, while also making it possible for me to keep adding meaningful updates in the long run.

What do you think of this approach? Would this feel fair to you as a user?

jaytrax

peter

Personally speaking I think that given the amount of work you have put in,
The amount of user requests you implement and the fact that you have gone full time,
I think full price for the upgrade to anyone that wants it is extremely fair

I don’t think you need to offer a discount as users wanting the new features will want to support your efforts.

If then you want to move to yearly updates I don’t see an issue either

Lishy

peter I’m not a massive fan of subscription models but I agree with everything Jaytrax has said. It provides an option to those that are happy with the features without having to commit a subscription model whilst constantly developing the app for those that do wish for more.
Given your constant interaction with the user base, commitment to the improving the app and huge effort over the past few months, I think most, if not all, users won’t mind paying full price at all. I certainly don’t.

What would you recommend the minimum iOS be for ST4?

TeabagTim

peter
Sounds fair.

But I can imagine that implementing this pricing/feature model makes the code quite complex. Especially when some features depend on each other. This increases the risk of bugs and it will get even worse over the years. #FeatureFlagHell

Damir

peter I love the NO SUBSCRIPTION and what you have proposed , it’s very fair to users that need this type of software, considering there are not many other options to choose from if you want ease of use on stage ., I could get away with ST2 for my needs at the moment, having easier and flexible way to operate definitely is worth the one time payment.
I use Logic Pro in a reasonably simple way , a free program like Audacity could do the job but I still payed the full price one time payment because it’s worth it, yet I would also love to have it on my IPad as it has a nice version but I refuse to have it because it’s subscription .
I don’t rent anything, if I can’t afford it then I save till I can, most people that subscribe to things don’t own a home or need to lease a car will never own a house and have no bank loan for life time, this is just my opinion and an observation here in Australia, please don’t be offended by my views it’s just something that is very common and obvious.
Great work Peter looking forward to the new app.

peter

Thanks for the feedback.

TeabagTim But I can imagine that implementing this pricing/feature model makes the code quite complex.

The feature check is not complex at all as this is already in place in version 3 to lock out some of the features in the free version. So that's not an issue. I just need to move that code to version 4 and add some minor changes.

Lishy What would you recommend the minimum iOS be for ST4?

ST4 will require at least iOS16.

AnthonyB

peter Totally happy with that, and thank you for considering a discounted upgrade path for existing users.

Some questions (just for clarity).

The upgrade pass concept.
I assume that if you skip a few years, and then buy an upgrade pass, that 'catches you up' on everything since your initial purchase 12-month window ended?
I only ask as I could conceive a method where it is rolling 12 month windows, and if you skip 3, then to catch up you need to purchase all of those missed upgrade passes. I don't believe this is what you are considering, but just calling it out for clarity.

Remote Session vs Host session
I've raised this concept previously, as ST can start getting up in cost if you have a large band, or want to have fill-in musicians join in. If we now add the Upgrade Pass concept, then we would now be looking at upgrades for users that only use ST for remote session join.

Now, at a base level, I'm OK with this, but I still want to throw it out there for consideration.

I had raised the idea of a separate 'remote session' license (or even app), that might be lower priced (or even free). If we are now talking about upgrade pass, we might have a situation where a remote session Host device has paid for Upgrade Passes and has all features, but the Client session device hasn't purchased any upgrade passes.

Q1-I assume that scenario will work? And I assume it will just be a case of any upgrade features that relate to the role of Client device in remote session simply would not be available?

Q2-Given a lot of features added will have no benefit to a Client device session, does having the same upgrade path/price still feel 'right'?

peter

AnthonyB I assume that if you skip a few years, and then buy an upgrade pass, that 'catches you up' on everything since your initial purchase 12-month window ended?

Yes, a single upgrade pass will catch up with all new features released in the past.

AnthonyB we might have a situation where a remote session Host device has paid for Upgrade Passes and has all features, but the Client session device hasn't purchased any upgrade passes.

I have designed the network protocol with backwards compatibility in mind. So it should be possible for clients to just ignore anything received from the host that it does not understand. But of course remote controlling a host, will require similar versions on both devices to properly work.

AnthonyB Q2-Given a lot of features added will have no benefit to a Client device session, does having the same upgrade path/price still feel 'right'?

The requirement to purchase a full version for the network functionality is something that creates quite a bit of revenue. I'm not sure I want to drop this revenue stream by making the feature free or offer a highly discounted purchase item that unlocks only this feature. If anyone just needs the network client feature, there will be no need to purchase any upgrades later on.

AnthonyB

peter remote controlling a host, will require similar versions on both devices to properly work.

Oh, I forgot about that scenario given we will have that new capability in ST4. Yeah, that makes sense.
So when it comes to remote sessions, there is now 3 personas to consider:

Host device (i.e. the device running ST4 that is the Host of the remote session)
Client device that needs to have remote control capability of the Host.
Client device that just receives 'stuff' (lyrics, audio region info, etc.) from the Host.

So in that case;
1 and 2 would have to be on the same 'upgrade pass version'
1 and 3 can be on different 'upgrade pass versions' and any feature not available to the Client (due to being on a 'lower version') will be ignored/not available.

peter The requirement to purchase a full version for the network functionality is something that creates quite a bit of revenue. I'm not sure I want to drop this revenue stream by making the feature free or offer a highly discounted purchase item that unlocks only this feature. If anyone just needs the network client feature, there will be no need to purchase any upgrades later on.

Copy that, I completely understand and support the reasoning!

Damir

peter I think there is no need to complicate things , you either need or want ST ? or you don’t , I have just spent close to au$2000 on a digital mixer I didn’t really need, a simple analog au$300 mixer would have done the job , WHY? Because I wanted to , because of the new mixers design and power for on and off the stage, to me ST is a bit of gear I actually NEED on stage and is worth more to me than both mixers put together, I own other instruments like guitars that are lot more expensive than the ST software , but I can always play a cheap guitar and get away with it but try find another bit of software like ST that you can get away with all its great functions on stage.
My point is, if you can’t afford ST ? Full version you really need to consider another career, I have friends with thousands of dollars instruments that can’t even play them and here I am playing at gigs with very cheap stuff.
As I said before I have paid $400 for Logic Pro and yet to me ST ? Is more important, as I could use a free program that audio edits but choose to spend unnecessary money because the software in Logic Pro has a better ZOOM IN OUT function , very simple reason but enough to make me buy a much better logical designed program.
ST IS ONE OF THOSE.
So to summarise it no matter which way you look at it , if you need this software just buy it no matter how many musicians you have , let them buy their own if they a serious about performing.
KEEP IT SIMPLE don’t overthink it.
That’s just my opinion as a low end solo performer,, that would have loved to have this software years ago and I would have paid thousands for it in those days when thousands was worth a ship load more than now days.

Sharonzaz

We will pay whatever you want 🤟🤓

Sharonzaz

I don’t see a problem with making some features part of an pay to upgrade thing

Network control, maybe 8 tracks (multi) from the get go but more (16? 24?) for extra price? Stuff like that.

Peter need to earn from his hard work. For years we got free stuff after we paid for the initial price and the app is so fundamental for the gigs now, pretty much as important as any other piece of gear I own and so, to be very honest I’ll pay $100 for the next version if that’s what Peter wants. More even. He needs to make sure he can earn a living from this. I have yet to see another app give ME what I needed in full. This is the only app out there close to that (more multitracks, groups with eq etc etc).

Damir

Sharonzaz I don’t see a problem with making some features part of an pay to upgrade thing

Network control, maybe 8 tracks (multi) from the get go but more (16? 24?) for extra price? Stuff like that.

I agree with all you wrote, except this, why?
You are unnecessarily complicating things.
ST? Is only worth a few beers or one evening out to a restaurant, is it really worth the complication in the purchase precess?
Those that don't see the value in it don't really need it anyway.
They can use APPLE MUSIC 🤮, SPOTIFY,🤮 etc😂

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