Set audio region to automatically loop when switching from another region?

joeguam

Thanks Damir, because all my regions are set to continuously loop by default (in the Audio Region menu), my need is a SINGLE command that will switch to the next region (and exit the currently playing region). It seems that the command “Select next region” should actually select the next region, but instead it selects the current region. Somehow I’m missing something here?

The challenge here is during a show in the middle of a song, especially when I’m playing solos, a “double tap” or a “double stomp” requires quite a bit of time.

@peter - Maybe instead of changing the functionality of the “next region” button or the “Select the next region” midi command, is there a possibility that a new midi assign command can be created? For example, we could name it “Queue the next region”, and it’s functionality will:

Set the region after the one that is currently playing to blinking
Disable/toggle loop off for the currently playing region
When the current region finishes playing, exit the current region
Enter the region which was set to blinking in #1 above and begin playing it
If loop is enabled for the formerly playing region (in step # 2 above) in the Audio Region menu, re-enable/toggle loop back on for that region

Is this possible please? I don’t need a button on the screen as I control ST3 through a midi pedal stomp. Just a new midi assign command.

Damir

joeguam because all my regions are set to continuously loop by default

This is an unusual way to play back a backing track, but i can see why you might run this way if you have drums only as your backing and use the backing audio segments as drum loops, and i agree with you it would be nice to be able to just release the now playing loop by one button push and also use the same button to move to other loops without introducing another switch on the foot pedal.
Perhaps if the logic changes depending on how you have programmed your loops.
If you don't have a permanent loop selected in a loop segment the logic is first hit skips the next loop, but if you have a permanent loop selected in an audio segment the first hit to search releases the now playing loop and selects the next loop in line to play on then you can move on and search for next loops.
This makes both ways of operating streamlined , i still think having movement in both directions would be a great benefit to all because you could get to all loops much faster and if you overshoot a loop you can quickly step back to select the exact loop you need in a very short amount of time.
The more loops you have the bigger chances are you are going to overshoot a loop cause the segments are smaller and there is no way to get back , this on stage is very dangerous to use as if you pick the wrong loop you could sound stupid. Thats why i hardly ever use my foot pedals for that i always use my finger on screen as i can safely and instantly select the correct loop.

Damir

joeguam Peter, what is the need for a musician to select the current region (ie. REPEAT/LOOP the current region)? Doesn’t the “toggle loop” button (which is right next to the “Next Region” button on the screen (and also has its own midi command) do that same functionality?

So why don't you just use the loop button midi command to disable your permanent loops temporarily to simply give you what you want on the foot pedal, which is to move on to the next loop.
I agree with you , to why the now playing loop is selected on the first pedal push , when you have a repeat loop already on the screen in the lyrics window and probably on the foot pedal as its a nice feature for instant use on stage, i would rather have the 2 assignable buttons to be able to go left and right when selecting next loops as the one direction idea takes too long to get around a song loop assignments.
Also if you start to search for a loop going forward means you don't need the next loop but the one after the next loop, otherwise you would just let the player naturally go to next loop, but if you move backwards you will get the next loop, this makes a lot more sense and skips unnecessary steps.
Selecting the now loop to replay is unnecessary as you have a looping button to do that jumping to a different spot is a different function and should be better streamlined to do it effectively .
Also if you have moved in any direction left or right simply hitting the opposite button gets you back to the now playing region and immediately cancels the search, giving you a quick way out of a bad decision.

joeguam

Damir

So why don't you just use the loop button midi command to disable your permanent loops temporarily to simply give you what you want on the foot pedal, which is to move on to the next loop.

Funny you mention this because as a result of one of your earlier replies in this thread, I tested this out. It worked great to have a single command (i.e. single stomp or single tap) to move from the current region to the next region after, except for the very last region. Here's a better explanation:

Let's say there's 2 audio regions defined, and both have continuous loop enabled in the Audio Regions menu:

Region 1: Verse
Region 2: Chorus

Commonly when performing this song, you'd want to move through this type of sequence:
Verse(1) -> Chorus -> Verse(2) -> Chorus -> Verse(Instrumental/Solo) -> Verse(3) -> Chorus

So moving from Verse -> Chorus works well using the "Toggle loop on/off" midi command. However, when moving from Chorus -> Verse, when you toggle the loop OFF instead of going back to the verse, it ends the song.

So again, just requesting for a midi command that can queue up the next region after the one that's currently playing with a single stomp please.

joeguam

Damir

...i still think having movement in both directions would be a great benefit to all because you could get to all loops much faster and if you overshoot a loop you can quickly step back to select the exact loop you need in a very short amount of time.

I also agree with this as well. Similar to my previous reply/example in this thread, when there's more than 2 audio regions defined, have the option to go back/forward to queue up either the previous region or the next region from the region that is currently playing is extremely valuable. For example:

Region 1: Verse
Region 2: Chorus
Region 3: Bridge

A common performance structure would be:
Verse(1) -> Chorus -> Verse(2) -> Chorus -> Verse(Instrumental/Solo) -> Bridge -> Verse(3) -> Chorus

Notice that when you need to go to the previous region like moving from Chorus -> Verse, having the option to step backwards would be a "single stomp" of the pedal. If you only have the option to step forward, you'd have to stomp twice (note: actually, with the current version you'd have to stomp 3 times because the first stomp just queues up the currently playing region, the 2nd stomp would queue up the bridge, then the 3rd stomp would queue up the verse).

So again, I agree having both a step backwards and step forwards option that moves from the currently playing region with a SINGLE COMMAND/STOMP would be extremely valuable. @peter - is this possible?

joeguam

Damir

Thats why i hardly ever use my foot pedals for that i always use my finger on screen as i can safely and instantly select the correct loop.

This is so difficult when both my hands are playing an instrumental/solo. I either have to start the solo late to take m y hand off the fretboard and tap the screen, or end the solo early to do the same.

Damir

joeguam This is so difficult when both my hands are playing an instrumental/solo. I either have to start the solo late to take m y hand off the fretboard and tap the screen, or end the solo early to do the same.

I totally agree as I play guitar and sing most of the time as well but when it’s a last minute thing it’s safer to do it by finger if possible than scroll through 15 or so loops and possibly miss the exact loop and have to do it again by then the chance of a random wrong loop possibly plays and creates more trouble than it’s worth.
Most of my songs have 8 to 16 loops.
Two way navigation would definitely help.

peter

Currently both methods to select next region, or previous region select the current region first, then loop through the regions until you reach the current region again and then disengage the selection.

Technically it would be possible to change the logic so that the next region to the left or right is selected first and the current region is selected last but I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

joeguam

peter but I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

Thanks Peter, I have 2 questions in response please:

peter the next region to the left or right is selected first and the current region is selected last

Could you please create 2 new midi assign commands to allow this functionality you described in the quote above? This would not affect any users, both in the on-screen user interface as well as the midi assign functionality. It would just be an addition of options.

What is the formal method of publishing a poll to get this voted on by users?

Damir

peter I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

Problem with this thinking is, yes the users are already use to this logic because that’s what they got and have no better option, we have continually massaged ST3 to get it to this point by trying alternative things, and mostly improved it.
All I know is I am not very comfortable using loop select by foot as it is now , it works but it’s not great , because it takes too much time to get to previous loops , you mainly want to go backwards when you are reaching the end of a song to extend a performance, also I get very nervous when attempting to move to a specific loop having to go to the end of song first than starting from beginning then moving through the loops knowing if I overshoot my needed loop I am in deep shit cause I can’t go back , then I have to quickly stop playing my guitar and finger select the needed loop because there is no more time to step through the whole song again.
I believe I am talking on behalf of the majority of solo artists that play an instrument & sing.
The change is actually not a change it’s just an addition to be able to move in both directions.

peter

@Damir You can already move in both directions

There are no polls in the forum. More people would need to comment on this thread. So that I can assess the interest in this change.

joeguam

peter

peter You can already move in both directions

Is there a command that can be added just to the midi assign list to move with the currently region being selected last instead of first please? No impact to the user, no changes to the current functionality, just adds an additional option. How can this be added, happy to pay for it.

Damir

peter You can already move in both directions

I apologise Peter I did not realise you have already added this to the list of choices in the foot pedal control.
It says, select next audio region , select previous audio region, that’s great , but when you press the pedal it selects the now laying region not the next on the first push then progressively moves to next , this then should read (repeat once / move to next right audio region, repeat once/ move to next Left audio region.
Perhaps it’s better to modify it so it does what it says.
As we already have a repeat loop function , and making the 2 assignable buttons to be able to have both of those functions available so we can use them on screen to manoeuvre through the loops instead of placing our hand across the lyrics screen to choose a next audio selection .
Having the select next audio region / loop current region is unnecessary as we already have the loop current region in our lyrics screen but we don’t have the select previous audio region which would be a lot more useful.
Also having midi control over the two features where next and previous actually does what it says would be great for those using midi commands , this would avoid confusion and give all areas consistency and true label meaning.

joeguam

Damir It says, select next audio region , select previous audio region, that’s great , but when you press the pedal it selects the now playing region not the next on the first push…

This is exactly the challenge I’ve been facing in the middle of shows, I have to double stomp just to “select the next region”.

@peter - please, I understand you don’t want to interrupt the current user experience, so can we please create new midi assign actions to select next/previous audio region (from the region currently playing) with a single stomp?

Damir

Damir I apologise Peter I did not realise you have already added this to the list of choices in the foot pedal control.

Perhaps all the function related to each other should be grouped together in the select list , making it simpler to create the needed programming.
Oops, I just checked the list and most of them are, except select previous audio region, that’s why I missed it. I didn’t realise it was available cause it was way down the list.
Wow that list is getting bigger, il have to see what other goodies you have given us.
Thanks Peter you’ve been a busy boy 🤩

peter

I don't like another action that does basically the same thing as an existing action with a different start point. How should I even name those actions so that users know what it does?

Let me think about it. Maybe you both have a point and it would be better to start with the next or previous region insteaf of the current.

Damir

peter Let me think about it. Maybe you both have a point and it would be better to start with the next or previous region insteaf of the current.

Yes, that would make the label correct as well as reducing an extra button push and also if we decide to cancel the next selection last minute, all we need to do is return to the now playing loop and it’s back to normal play , this would be a lot more comforting knowing you can quickly manoeuvre in any direction yet get back to normal if needed.
If I need a repeat of the now playing loop I have the repeat function, if I need to move to another loop point I have the move function, this is clear to the user, mixing functions as is, is slower and confusing.

joeguam

peter I don't like another action that does basically the same thing as an existing action…

Completely agree with you here. Consideing this specific concept, with the current functionality selecting the currently-playing region first (instead of last) when the “Select the next region” midi command is executed, you are essentially doing the same thing as “Toggle loop on”. So inadvertently, haven’t you created two actions that do basically the same thing?

Damir If I need a repeat of the now playing loop I have the repeat function, if I need to move to another loop point I have the move function, this is clear to the user, mixing functions as is, is slower and confusing.

Also agree with Damir here, and he’s describing it very similarly as I did above. Selecting the currently-playing region first actually functions as a repeat, which already has another command.

peter Let me think about it. Maybe you both have a point and it would be better to start with the next or previous region insteaf of the current.

@peter - Thank you Peter, really hope you will consider. I’m flying out for my next big show on Valentine’s Day, and this would significantly help me if it could be released by then. THANK YOU for just considering it, ST3 is a great app!

peter

Originally the function was called "Cycle audio regions". I renamed it when adding the possibility to cycle forward and backward. But I guess with the renaming the expectation changed.

joeguam

peter - thanks for explaining Peter, please consider making the change to have the current region selected last. 🙏🏽

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