Set audio region to automatically loop when switching from another region?

Damir · 8 Jan

joeguam Is there any way that the "Next Region" button on the iPad screen and the "Select next audio region" midi command can be set to actually select the next region after the one that is currently playing with a single tap/stomp?

My two cents worth, I don’t see the point of either , why?
If you press once , you firstly get the now playing loop repeat once, big deal, you can do that using permanent loop pedal or finger feature anyway , ok you have to hit it again to release the continual repeat , but it’s doable and fast .
If you change the logic so one hit firstly selects the next loop in line , again BIG DEAL! that loop is already going to play next anyway so there is no need to select the next loop, it’s unnecessary.
I think it’s more logical if you hit the pedal once you skip this and the next loop.
This logic creates an advantage , reducing 2 unnecessary taps yet simply allowing you to skip the next loop and making it quicker to move throughout the whole songs loops.
This logic is only better if all your loops are strung together, if you have gaps between loops than remaining with the existing logic is better.
I always program all my songs fully with loops, there are no gaps , only beginnings and ends of song might have some small non looped area , this is the best way to use loops for numerous reasons.
So I would make the one hit skip now and next loop.
Cheers Damir

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir
Damir I think we may be saying similar things. I have all my songs programmed with continuous loops, however the “next region” button - in the current version - doesn’t actually queue up (set to blinking) the next region….it queues up the region that’s currently playing. So, tapping the “next region” button just continues to play the region that’s currently playing and that is useless because I already have all my regions on continuous loops.

Shouldn’t the “next region” button actually queue up (set to blinking) the next region with a single tap?

peter · 8 Jan

I am with Damir. I think it makes more sense that the first press selects the current region and then you move to the left or right. In any case it is just one extra tap for you to achieve what you need. The other way around (first tap selects next region) would mean you need to cycle through all regions to get to the current one.

Damir · 8 Jan

joeguam Damir I think we may be saying similar things. I have all my songs programmed with continuous loops, however the “next region” button - in the current version - doesn’t actually queue up (set to blinking) the next region….it queues up the region that’s currently playing. So, tapping the “next region” button just continues to play the region that’s currently playing and that is useless because I already have all my regions on continuous loops.

Shouldn’t the “next region” button actually queue up (set to blinking) the next region with a single tap?

Ahha! I see your point. Because you have permanent loops on all your loops makes sense to jump to next loop so it releases the now playing permanent loop, yes that makes more logical sense in your case.
I don't have permanent loops engaged so to me it makes more sense that first tap actually skips the next loop as well because if i don't touch anything it will play anyway so whats the point.
OK perhaps the logic should be (Peter) , if you are on a loop with permanent loop already selected the first tap just moves on to the next loop, BUT if you do not have the now playing loop in permanent loop the first tap on the foot pedal skips the next loop as it will be next anyway if you don't touch anything , so it makes sense to skip the now and next loop allowing you to quickly skip the next loop and either stay on that or go hunting for other loops, this would save a lot of foot tap dancing if you use this feature a lot.
And if you need to engage the now loop to play again just hit the permanent loop feature and if you need to move on just release this button or hit the loop search pedal and it will also move on to the next loop.
Actually this makes a lot of sense.
I hope i have explained my logic clearly.
If not let me know and i will try again .
Simply put depending if a now selected loop is normal play or permanent loop engaged depends how the first foot pedal hit works.
Cheers

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

peter shouldn’t the “Select next audio region” actually select (i.e. queue up and set to blinking) the NEXT audio region and not the CURRENT region?

Am I missing something here?

If we wanted a “Select CURRENT audio region”, should that be a different command? That’s essentially what the “next region” button is functioning as now.

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir you explained it well, thanks Damir.

I see how your situation would work to select the region after the next (as the next region would naturally just play after the current one). Regardless, with the current functionality of the “Next Region” button (and the “Select next region” midi command) doesn’t do either, it selects the CURRENTLY PLAYING region.

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

peter

Peter, what is the need for a musician to select the current region (ie. REPEAT/LOOP the current region)? Doesn’t the “toggle loop” button (which is right next to the “Next Region” button on the screen (and also has its own midi command) do that same functionality?

Damir · 8 Jan

joeguam if you only need to release a permanent loop you are better off programming a permanent loop foot switch or a midi command to release the permanent loop, using loop select button function is not ideal due to its logic as is.

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir

Thanks Damir, because all my regions are set to continuously loop by default (in the Audio Region menu), my need is a SINGLE command that will switch to the next region (and exit the currently playing region). It seems that the command “Select next region” should actually select the next region, but instead it selects the current region. Somehow I’m missing something here?

The challenge here is during a show in the middle of a song, especially when I’m playing solos, a “double tap” or a “double stomp” requires quite a bit of time.

@peter - Maybe instead of changing the functionality of the “next region” button or the “Select the next region” midi command, is there a possibility that a new midi assign command can be created? For example, we could name it “Queue the next region”, and it’s functionality will:

Set the region after the one that is currently playing to blinking
Disable/toggle loop off for the currently playing region
When the current region finishes playing, exit the current region
Enter the region which was set to blinking in #1 above and begin playing it
If loop is enabled for the formerly playing region (in step # 2 above) in the Audio Region menu, re-enable/toggle loop back on for that region

Is this possible please? I don’t need a button on the screen as I control ST3 through a midi pedal stomp. Just a new midi assign command.

Damir · 8 Jan

joeguam Peter, what is the need for a musician to select the current region (ie. REPEAT/LOOP the current region)? Doesn’t the “toggle loop” button (which is right next to the “Next Region” button on the screen (and also has its own midi command) do that same functionality?

So why don't you just use the loop button midi command to disable your permanent loops temporarily to simply give you what you want on the foot pedal, which is to move on to the next loop.
I agree with you , to why the now playing loop is selected on the first pedal push , when you have a repeat loop already on the screen in the lyrics window and probably on the foot pedal as its a nice feature for instant use on stage, i would rather have the 2 assignable buttons to be able to go left and right when selecting next loops as the one direction idea takes too long to get around a song loop assignments.
Also if you start to search for a loop going forward means you don't need the next loop but the one after the next loop, otherwise you would just let the player naturally go to next loop, but if you move backwards you will get the next loop, this makes a lot more sense and skips unnecessary steps.
Selecting the now loop to replay is unnecessary as you have a looping button to do that jumping to a different spot is a different function and should be better streamlined to do it effectively .
Also if you have moved in any direction left or right simply hitting the opposite button gets you back to the now playing region and immediately cancels the search, giving you a quick way out of a bad decision.

Damir · 8 Jan

joeguam because all my regions are set to continuously loop by default

This is an unusual way to play back a backing track, but i can see why you might run this way if you have drums only as your backing and use the backing audio segments as drum loops, and i agree with you it would be nice to be able to just release the now playing loop by one button push and also use the same button to move to other loops without introducing another switch on the foot pedal.
Perhaps if the logic changes depending on how you have programmed your loops.
If you don't have a permanent loop selected in a loop segment the logic is first hit skips the next loop, but if you have a permanent loop selected in an audio segment the first hit to search releases the now playing loop and selects the next loop in line to play on then you can move on and search for next loops.
This makes both ways of operating streamlined , i still think having movement in both directions would be a great benefit to all because you could get to all loops much faster and if you overshoot a loop you can quickly step back to select the exact loop you need in a very short amount of time.
The more loops you have the bigger chances are you are going to overshoot a loop cause the segments are smaller and there is no way to get back , this on stage is very dangerous to use as if you pick the wrong loop you could sound stupid. Thats why i hardly ever use my foot pedals for that i always use my finger on screen as i can safely and instantly select the correct loop.

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir

So why don't you just use the loop button midi command to disable your permanent loops temporarily to simply give you what you want on the foot pedal, which is to move on to the next loop.

Funny you mention this because as a result of one of your earlier replies in this thread, I tested this out. It worked great to have a single command (i.e. single stomp or single tap) to move from the current region to the next region after, except for the very last region. Here's a better explanation:

Let's say there's 2 audio regions defined, and both have continuous loop enabled in the Audio Regions menu:

Region 1: Verse
Region 2: Chorus

Commonly when performing this song, you'd want to move through this type of sequence:
Verse(1) -> Chorus -> Verse(2) -> Chorus -> Verse(Instrumental/Solo) -> Verse(3) -> Chorus

So moving from Verse -> Chorus works well using the "Toggle loop on/off" midi command. However, when moving from Chorus -> Verse, when you toggle the loop OFF instead of going back to the verse, it ends the song.

So again, just requesting for a midi command that can queue up the next region after the one that's currently playing with a single stomp please.

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir

...i still think having movement in both directions would be a great benefit to all because you could get to all loops much faster and if you overshoot a loop you can quickly step back to select the exact loop you need in a very short amount of time.

I also agree with this as well. Similar to my previous reply/example in this thread, when there's more than 2 audio regions defined, have the option to go back/forward to queue up either the previous region or the next region from the region that is currently playing is extremely valuable. For example:

Region 1: Verse
Region 2: Chorus
Region 3: Bridge

A common performance structure would be:
Verse(1) -> Chorus -> Verse(2) -> Chorus -> Verse(Instrumental/Solo) -> Bridge -> Verse(3) -> Chorus

Notice that when you need to go to the previous region like moving from Chorus -> Verse, having the option to step backwards would be a "single stomp" of the pedal. If you only have the option to step forward, you'd have to stomp twice (note: actually, with the current version you'd have to stomp 3 times because the first stomp just queues up the currently playing region, the 2nd stomp would queue up the bridge, then the 3rd stomp would queue up the verse).

So again, I agree having both a step backwards and step forwards option that moves from the currently playing region with a SINGLE COMMAND/STOMP would be extremely valuable. @peter - is this possible?

Jjoeguam · 8 Jan

Damir

Thats why i hardly ever use my foot pedals for that i always use my finger on screen as i can safely and instantly select the correct loop.

This is so difficult when both my hands are playing an instrumental/solo. I either have to start the solo late to take m y hand off the fretboard and tap the screen, or end the solo early to do the same.

Damir · 9 Jan

joeguam This is so difficult when both my hands are playing an instrumental/solo. I either have to start the solo late to take m y hand off the fretboard and tap the screen, or end the solo early to do the same.

I totally agree as I play guitar and sing most of the time as well but when it’s a last minute thing it’s safer to do it by finger if possible than scroll through 15 or so loops and possibly miss the exact loop and have to do it again by then the chance of a random wrong loop possibly plays and creates more trouble than it’s worth.
Most of my songs have 8 to 16 loops.
Two way navigation would definitely help.

peter · 9 Jan

Currently both methods to select next region, or previous region select the current region first, then loop through the regions until you reach the current region again and then disengage the selection.

Technically it would be possible to change the logic so that the next region to the left or right is selected first and the current region is selected last but I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

Jjoeguam · 9 Jan

peter but I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

Thanks Peter, I have 2 questions in response please:

peter the next region to the left or right is selected first and the current region is selected last

Could you please create 2 new midi assign commands to allow this functionality you described in the quote above? This would not affect any users, both in the on-screen user interface as well as the midi assign functionality. It would just be an addition of options.

What is the formal method of publishing a poll to get this voted on by users?

Damir · 10 Jan

peter I will not change this behaviour as users are already used to the current behaviour. It would require a major vote for this change from a lot of users to change the current behaviour.

Problem with this thinking is, yes the users are already use to this logic because that’s what they got and have no better option, we have continually massaged ST3 to get it to this point by trying alternative things, and mostly improved it.
All I know is I am not very comfortable using loop select by foot as it is now , it works but it’s not great , because it takes too much time to get to previous loops , you mainly want to go backwards when you are reaching the end of a song to extend a performance, also I get very nervous when attempting to move to a specific loop having to go to the end of song first than starting from beginning then moving through the loops knowing if I overshoot my needed loop I am in deep shit cause I can’t go back , then I have to quickly stop playing my guitar and finger select the needed loop because there is no more time to step through the whole song again.
I believe I am talking on behalf of the majority of solo artists that play an instrument & sing.
The change is actually not a change it’s just an addition to be able to move in both directions.

peter · 10 Jan

@Damir You can already move in both directions

There are no polls in the forum. More people would need to comment on this thread. So that I can assess the interest in this change.

Jjoeguam · 10 Jan

peter

peter You can already move in both directions

Is there a command that can be added just to the midi assign list to move with the currently region being selected last instead of first please? No impact to the user, no changes to the current functionality, just adds an additional option. How can this be added, happy to pay for it.