Brainstorming about the version 4 user interface

peter

I have added a ton of new features during the lifetime of ST3 and unfortunately it shows when you look at the user interface. So one of the main areas I will be working on in version 4 is to build a user interface that makes all those features better usable.

Let's take a look at some of the things that I think are working fine with the current user interface:

Stage Traxx is usable even on iPhones. Most music apps don't even work on iPhones. There are some elements missing or might be really small, but you can get by with just an iPhone.
Being able to hide the song list in the main player and even change the width of the song list.
Configurable buttons was a good idea (although the number of these buttons must increase)

Of course there are also things I am not satisfied with:

Popup lyrics view: I thought that having something that resembles the interface of the Music app or Spotify would be a good idea. But it makes things a lot more complicated and this popup view caused some major headaches in the last couple of years.
Use of horizontal sliders for everything wastes valuable space (for example the song volume slider in the main player)
Audio regions are poorly integrated into the player
Many things can be done in different places in the app (for example setting the song color either in song details, or in the song properties popup in the main player). Ideally there should only be one place to do one thing
The app does not feel like a native app on macOS.

I would like to build upon the good things and try to get rid or at least improve the bad things.

So my vision would be a single screen application like for example Logic Pro. You only have one screen you work in with panels that can slide in and contain editors for different stuff. So on the left hand side you could have the song list like in ST3. On the bottom you could slide in anything that is related to the selected song like multitrack mixer, equalizer, audio region editor or even a view to trigger audio regions. On top would be your playback controls, and icons to toggle the song list, the settings, the bottom panel and so on.

Problem here is: this setup will not work on an iPhone. And here I am really not sure what to do. Should I concentrate on the best possible big screen interface or should I make compromises on the large interface to be able to run it also on the phone? A solution might be a completely seperate interface for the iPhone that would offer only some of the functionality of the iPad but I'm not sure I can pull that off.

Now, for the important part: Could you please give me some feedback what you like and dislike about the current user interface and how you would like to see it improve?

Damir

peter you summed it up Perfectly Peter I almost agree with all your points, having just one screen to work with is ideal and all things needed only in one logical place , the only feedback I would give for now is, all the buttons that need touching should be at the bottom so not to block the lyrics screen at any stage of performing this means LYRICS SCREEN IS EITHER TOP RIGHT OR LEFT DEPENDING ON SETTING PREFERENCES,
START STOP AND VOLUME AS IS AT BOTTOM USING A TOUCH UP DOWN BUTTONS INSTEAD OF SLIDER WITH A DOUBLE TAP TO ZERO RESET leaving space for other buttons,
All other functions above this that is selectable to what you need Loops , plug inns , waveform etc , ON iPhone keep the same idea as much as possible but have it so we can place things we need in the screen , so if we just want a simple player with no lyrics but have a MIX or Loop function we can select how we need the interface and perhaps some things might not be possible on iPhone but it’s flexible enough to squeeze as much as possible in to it.

My biggest thing is DONT BLOCK MY LYRICS SCREEN NO MATTER WHAT I NEED TO DO.

Lyrics on top left or right or fully on the screen .

Otherwise I totally agree with all your comments cheers Damir

Skid

peter I like the idea of left, bottom, right and top for organizing things.
I think you can get everything to work on an iPhone as I came across a frame in a frame thing where the side popped out and you used your fingers to slide along an unlimited horizontal page.

Your main player page is clean now and with pop outs, you can clean it up even more. Just keep it intuitive.

I agree that the horizontal faders are not-so-keen. Perhaps a drop down dedicated mixer page like ProTools mixer? AVID does it all with 2 main screens and a few pop ups?!?!?

…and more midi mapping on the faders! 😉

illiya1976

peter
My opinion is based on successful experience with “DAW Cakewalk by BandLab”... - A symbiosis of the work of a mobile application and a large program for a computer.

Stage Traxx 3 is a good and complete application.
Stage Logic Traxx 4 - DAW with powerful instruments, vst, output of different parts to multiple monitors, video, support for Stage Traxx 3 symbiosis... Transfer an easy playlist version to the iPhone. Control a heavy version of your DAW using your iPhone...
*the latest iPads are already as powerful as Macbooks

profcyclist

peter I vote for making the v4 design for the large device UI layout as you described. If you will allow the legacy version to still be used, then iPhone users can still leverage that I would hope, but focus on larger format devices for v4 and beyond. My bias of course is I only use it on the iPad, but the iPhone is my backup if something fails with iPad. I'd be fine for each to use a separate version if the libraries import to each and reference same fileset/database (is that how it will work?).

Aeronk

Whilst a compressor plug-in can be added in the settings currently, it affects all songs. It would be useful if such a facility could be added to individual songs only as some songs need a compressor to raise quiet parts and others dont.

Damir

Aeronk Whilst a compressor plug-in can be added in the settings currently, it affects all songs. It would be useful if such a facility could be added to individual songs only as some songs need a compressor to raise quiet parts and others dont.

Sorry I disagree with you Aeronk, we don’t need a DAW like player we just need a good simple on stage player that plays already perfected files, otherwise you are bloating the software unnecessarily.
Cheers Damir

MAXX

Aeronk

@"peter"#p14776My thoughts:

ios should be the focus of optimization regarding interface during operation (i.e., live gig)
I say this because1.) the tasks needed during a show are sufficiently straightforward to execute on ios ... including a device as small as an ipod touch! (Which I use mounted via magnet to microphone pole creating an ergonomically ideal scenario to trigger songs and easily read lyrics!)
2.) Much of the "setup tasks" (loading songs, balancing volumes, etc) should, ideally, be performed easily on any Apple device. This facilitates a typical use case of someone with a spare 20 minutes, perhaps waiting in a restaurant for someone as an example, to open the app and immediately work on backing tracks/ lyrics !
3.) iOS can most conveniently facilitate (those devices with headphone out) stereo output to FOH PLUS monitor mix) . (No aggregate device required nor physical interface)
Older ios devices, specifically those with headphones out jack, should be supported as long as possible. (See 1. above)
Output "setup" should be capable of track assignment without having the output devices connected/recognized. (Saving a "setup/assignment") I hope this makes sense.
I've used logic for 5 years. I must admit I only use for simple tasks and do not have that much interest in learning much more about it.
That being said, I really dislike ALL THE CRAP ON A SINGLE SCREEN!
I actually like having to go to different screens to do things in ST3.. could they be layed out better...? I guess, sure... maybe....
If ios is the focus for user interface enhancements, separate screens for actions makes more sense as there are plenty of users who prefer and routinely use smaller ios devices.

Overall, I think ST3 is FABULOUS! this is the exact reason i'm thinking about it here and taking the effort to "weigh in"

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK PETER!!

ierato

Aeronk what Compressor are you using?

ierato

Aeronk what Compressor are you using?

jaytrax

Damir

I agree,
If you want specific compressor settings per song

Two choices - do this in your preparation before exporting from a DAW

use AUM with plugins such as FABFILTER
then use the inter-app midi to trigger compressor presets via Midi embedded from the lyrics editor

Jega777

I look forward to your ideas becoming a reality Peter, but please don’t forget you have already created a wonderful app that works perfectly and has so many great features that makes our lives as performers so much easier, I agree you have to keep progressing and moving with technology, but please don’t lose what we already have - A well designed and easy to use app that works perfectly for it’s purpose.
Thank you for the app and good luck with your ideas and visions for the future 👍🏻

Skid

Also, I like the pop down mixer frame and master pitch frame. Maybe more graphical/intuitive mixer? You can get a bunch of stuff in that one frame. All the audio settings and interface things.

When the song list pops from the left you can get more setup things.

Anyway, your idea of organising the areas with all the like elements makes sense…

Excellent program!

yblanco

"Simple is the ultimate sophistication" someone said. But maybe putting EVERYTHING in a single screen is too much to ask and will require a steep learning curve for most current users.

I'm new to ST3 and there are many things still not known to me but the way I see the software is in 3 big categories:
1- SETTINGS: There are many (needed) and this should remain as a separate page(s)
2- SONGS: This should be the core and IMO should also be kept separate as it is a database. Little improvements could be added like: add a button to perform Google search from within the app for lyrics or chords (the search is populated from the song title), add a "starting pitch' option to help a singer in songs where lyrics start before music, use the 'Artist' database to autofill when entering a new song from same artist, auto capitalize first letter of songs and artist. These are taken from another app and not my ideas 🙂
3- PLAYER: probably as important as SONGS and I think this is where the 'Interface redesign' should focus. You have seen my request about changing the interface for regions and the ability to interface with them in the Players view. I gave some recommendations here about adding buttons for each region while replacing the Next/Loop buttons and taking space from the volume slider bar. And as you said: the Lyrics will take preference over everything and integrating lyrics with regions/loops will make the App a killer (some friends are waiting for it to jump on it BTW)

I agree with people when they say your App is almost Perfect.

peter

Thanks a lot for all comments and suggestions so far.

With "single screen" I don't mean that everything will be done in that screen. There will of course still be popup dialogs like for example the lyrics or pdf editor. Single screen just means that there will not be a management screen and a player screen like in the current version.

AlanC76

peter
I'm already convinced that your next version will be awesome !! But this is my €uro's worth:
When performing, I want just lyrics on screen and the basic things like volume +/-, start/stop, access to playlist and not much else.
Getting songs ready is what I do at home in studio with Reaper. Once they're in ST they "SHOULD" be ready to play and not need much if any adjustments. So all the extra screens would be best as far off as possible from the main lyrics screen.
Basically, ST3 is as near perfect for me now as I would want. Hopefully, when you issue ST4 you will leave ST3 as an option ?

Damir

peter With "single screen" I don't mean that everything will be done in that screen. There will of course still be popup dialogs like for example the lyrics or pdf editor. Single screen just means that there will not be a management screen and a player screen like in the current version.

Totally agree with you!

Damir

AlanC76 200% agree with you!

peter

Version 4 will be a separate app like version 3, so that anyone can choose if and when to upgrade to a new user interface.

Regarding the interface. What I mean is something like this (just a mockup with colored screen areas to show how much space they need):

Nearly all of the space is available for lyrics. Just 2 small toolbars on top and on on bottom. You can slide in a sidebar with the songs and playlists. That will have a variable width. Example:

When needed, editor panes can be moved in from the top and bottom. These panes could contain the equalizer, track mixer, maybe assignable buttons or audio region selectors:

These panes have a variable height and will take up whatever space the content needs. A mixer will most likely need more space than an equalizer for example.

The most important part is that you can hide any unneeded screen element except the 2 toolbars. If you don't need the lyrics view, you can change the width of the song list to fill the whole screen.

I guess this approach should address all use cases equally well.

Damir

peter Love It, the idea is to give all users flehability to setup the interface to zoom in on their needs of operation on one screen but still give them other options in the background .

Damir

peter Love It, the idea is to give all users flehability to setup the interface to zoom in on their needs of operation on one screen but still give them other options in the background .
I see it this way ,
There are firstly 2 main modes of operation , The preparation mode and the performing mode we should be making a choice to which mode we are in and the interface behaves in favour of the need.
The third thing is Settings should be easily available in all modes.
Things that immediately matter in particular modes should be obvious on the screen.
Flexibility to favour left or right hand users should work on every screens ie Stop button, song list and others on left or right side,

When choosing controls within screens to have choice of placement within that screen , ie I want my stop button on extreme sides and assignable buttons after the stop button as the STOP BUTTON IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND I LIKE IT IN THE BOTTOM CORNER AS ITS HANDY AND LESS CHANCE TO ACCIDENTALLY HIT IT IF USING OTHER BUTTONS.

All these seemingly small things really make a total big difference when on stage.

I am interested to see how you implement the loop system as that’s the next big thing after Lyrics that makes a big difference on stage.

I would be happy with a full width screen that pops up above my bottom control area and a very narrow song position slide indicator above the loops or perhaps at the top of lyrics to show and allow positioning of song position ,

The loop selection buttons to be even size at all times and an hour glass indicator to go through the loop buttons, this then gives me great control of song manipulation if I require it yet you can disable this button area if not needed,
The loops don’t just control the audio but can be used for PDF and LYRICS ONLY exact text place selection just like the audio backing loops become PAGE TURNS for easy and consistent user experience on stage all being remote controllable this is a 3 type of loop control choice to the need of the song type performed, every song type has the use of loops the same way but using different components.

Oops I did it again so I will stop for now
Great work Peter.

Damir

peter Nearly all of the space is available for lyrics. Just 2 small toolbars on top and on on bottom. You can slide in a sidebar with the songs and playlists. That will have a variable width. Example:

The top tool bar to only have things you don’t need to touch while performing, the bottom tool bar to have the things you need to touch while performing , this applies to loops bar verses EQ and mixer area the loops you always need to touch if performing so this needs to be on bottom the EQ and Mixer should have been setup in prep and perhaps is needed for a minor occasional tweak so this should be above that comes down but does not block your lyrics it just drops down the lyrics so you can either leave it on screen or have a momentary drop down and hide option depending on requirement, the idea is to always see your lyrics and minimise hand movement over the lyrics while performing.Thats in performance mode while in preperation mode this does not matter as you are not fussed if lyrics are hidden by hand movement.

peter

Good points Damir. One thing that is hell of a lot of work is to provide mirrored layout choices (song list and buttons either left or right). I think I would rather spend that time on more important things.

Damir

peter Good points Damir. One thing that is hell of a lot of work is to provide mirrored layout choices (song list and buttons either left or right). I think I would rather spend that time on more important things.

As a Simple powerful Player for on stage ST3 really does not need anything more it just needs to be presented more practically, yes the multitrack import needs to be easier and text Editor could be improved to speed things up in prep, but unless you are adding new things like video/photo sync with audio replay , I think placement of buttons for left handed or right handed people is very important , this includes one handed iPhone control for left or right single hand users is very important.
As I said before if you are right handed and place an iPhone 11pro max in hand the thumb neatly wants to touch the bottom right side to start play , this is the opposite for left handers yet you have this button in the wrong spot for both users, this is what I mean when it comes to tidying up the layout small things that could greatly improve the operating experience, yes we can live with it but why not improve it if it makes sense and is not too hard to do.
Perhaps just give us limited options like which side do we want the song list on and the STOP button the rest does not matter that much .
Just pointing things out that I found uncomfortable and awkward when using the two portable devices like iPad and iPhone.

Damir

Damir oops I said both users it’s wrong it’s only right hand users, left handers on iPhone are fine, lucky buggers.
Pete you must be left handed 😂