Open Beta Version 3.6.0
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peter Hi Peter, i was so excited to try this beta after reading all the new features to my great disappointment in APPLE, apparently my iMac 27 inch is just a fraction too old to run the new OS , so i had to rush out today to buy another one that looks exactly the same with a worse keyboard and found out i was lucky to get it as it was one of the last 27 inch models, from now on you can only buy 24 inch ones , so people beware go and grab one now if you want a big 27 inch screen, i just don't get apple its like its been run by &)$#%=;,#@ , anyway now i have an old 24 inch iMac great little machine to use as a mirror, a fantastic 27 inch iMac to give my little grandchildren to play with in their cubby house , and another identical twin that i can hopefully get ST3 on to try out the new features. THANKS APPLE you selfish little 'jh@93 .
Anyway after all that shopping i ran out of time to test ST3 which i am dying to try out later tonight.
Sorry for the rant but i thought id warn users if they have older machines with big screens to update ASP while there are still shops that stock them otherwise you will end up with a 24 inch screen.
Hi Peter, the new Xfade feature is brilliant it really makes it less painful to crash out from one song to another by having 0 fade in time specially if all your songs are immediate start.
Well done
Playlist automatically sorted.
Ok that’s fine that you can sort them in alphabetical order but that was already working that way, the fact you can sort it out by date created is cool but unless you can manually rearrange the order of the playlists these other two features don’t help greatly.
These new features would be useful if you messed up all your playlists then wanted to rearrange them but you can’t mess them up much anyway as they a fixed in alphabetical order A to Z or Z to A and by date is handy if you just wanted to see latest few playlists, so it’s ok but not flexible to suit all users as there might be users that like to have full control of order of their playlists.
What still really baffles me is why is there a filter option there as it has no use in this page except make all your playlists disappear if used
You can not set a filter for playlists so why have this it’s just confusing. I know we talked about this before but I still don’t understand it, all I know if I use it I loose all my playlists and can’t get them back unless I clear the filter, I believe this is more of a nuisance then a feature it is either in the wrong spot or it doesn’t work.
If it has to be explained again it means it ain’t workin.
Cheers Damir
Hi Peter - at the moment I’m not finding it very easy to define the start and end of a loop - guess I need more practice. Also I’m finding that there is an annoying crackle or spitting noise at the restart of the loop which I can’t seem to get rid of. How do you delete a loop - can’t seem to find that anywhere. Will continue to test.
peter I have assigned key words in SONG mode and the filter works fine there, it just doesn’t seem to do anything in playlists I have about 20 playlists and about 20,000 songs but I don’t se a purpose for this filter in playlists it just makes all the playlists disappear and I don’t know why, it should not interfere with my main play list I should always be able to see my list to choose one then if I am in a playlist this filter should be used to filter through my playlists songs that exist . I don’t see any purpose with this filter in main playlist area.
Is anyone using this , if so how do they make it work to be a benefit?
Cheers Damir
Creating a loop, I found I loose sound if I increase the length of the loop.
Let’s say end of loop is 1min I increase to 1.30 I hear the first minute then nothing for 30 sec then audio comes back at beginning I hear it till the one minute mark again, if I stop play and start again it plays through correctly right through 1.30 min.
This I noticed while trying to create first few loops it seems to be a regular occurrence if you do it a certain way.
I will write back once I establish its exact trigger.
Playlist keywords are like stickers you attach to a whole list, not to a single song.
You access this list by clicking the blue tag icon on the playlist screen, not via the (i) button which takes you to SONG tags nor from song mode.
To add a sticker to a playlist, you need to pay attention to TICKING the tag, not using the + to add a new tag name.
Then, filtering works. This filters PLAYLISTS, not SONGS, which means you either see a complete playlist or you don't. It's not about individual songs.
You could tag multiple sets into one event by tagging them with the name of the event. It only has value if you have loads of playlists with similar names probably.
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DickyDutch I'm also struggling to set start and end points.
I'm not much of a loop user, but can see the value in keeping solos going for longer.
It's always baffled me why you never get a loop preview (in other apps I've tried, such as Anytune which I use for learning a song.) Why not have something like a 2-second preview graphic window with the end of the loop being shown on the left, and the beginning of the loop being shown on the right. Then just having a play button to preview the loop transition. Obviously, some fine controls over moving the loop points would be important too. I'm just unable to get the exact points I need with a low resolution editor. Maybe it's easier on MacOS, but it isn't on iOS with a finger. Crossfading at the loop point would probably fix the clicks, or really fine control with visual/manual waveform matching would also sort that out, or just do it by ear, but you'd need a finer resolution. Also, maybe a nudge +- button next to the in and out points would make it easier. I'd also like to see the playhead position while zoomed in.
@DickyDutch There's a Delete Region option under the Begin and End times. You may need to scroll up.
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I love the new crossfade options!!! I had a malfunction ONCE, but I've tried to replicate it and can't. Currently I have mine on 2.2s fade-out and 0s fade-in and it works well for my music. Apply to continuous playback is off. (I think it should be off by default.)
I love the display in playlists of the total time. Just one thing, and not a big deal, I see that changing tempo doesn't change song time; it just shows the same time and plays the song quicker or slower (seconds count faster or slower.) It would mean an inaccurate total length. But, as I'm only adjusting by up to 2% on some songs, it's not a big deal.
Nice work @peter!
Hi Peter, i have stumbled on a problem, i tried to setup my stomp six foot control to operate the loop features, my foot pedal switch 5 is used for audio mute, so i thought i would program this switch to scroll through the loops, as audio mute was active i changed this switch to the looping function and so far this function seems to scroll through the loops ok but i was stuck on hearing any audio and now my audio mute is activated but i cant deactivate it as my pedal 5 is no longer that option, my question is , how can i activate and deactivate audio mute on the software itself without a foot pedal , is there a way to do this on the software ?
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Hi Peter, after using my stomp 6 with looping, i think it is usable on stage it seems to work well when choosing next loop point it obviously has a no selection of loop then goes through the loops and highlights the one that will activate next, this is usable on stage but the actual software interface is bad, as i said earlier a single touch of a loop section should select it to be the next playing section not to be an activation for permanent loop, this does not make sense, a long press should activate permanent loop option , in other words its back to front.
Again keeping it simple,
Single touch selects the loop to be next.
Single touch again on this section cancels this request in case you changed your mind.
Long press on a section puts it in permanent loop.
Long press again on the same section cancels this request.
A double click on a loop section immediately pays this section.
If you choose a song that contains looping , and single touch or foot pedal to a section and hit start the song should start from there.
At the moment if you choose a song with looping and scroll to a section you highlight because this is where you want to start from the song still starts from beginning.
A single touch of any loop point should start play from that loop point.
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Using iPad looping feature by finger control, i am finding that the highlighted loop point does not stand out enough to be easily distinguishable from the other coloured loops, this is very important to be able to be seen at a distance.
The other observation is if i long press a section to highlight it then i long press it to cancel this request the audio jumps to my finger position which is very bad as you didn't want a sudden song position change you just wanted to cancel the loop selection.
As i said before a long press to choose a next loop is a wrong choice of command, this command takes time to do and it should be a quicker single touch command , a long press is more suited for functions less required like continual loop. After experiencing an audio jump i think perhaps a quick double tap might be more suitable to use as a permanent loop command then the long press as this can cause the song to jump by mistake to a point that was not requested.
Once you experience what I'm talking about you will all agree with me just play around a bit more and experiment.
Suggestion for better highlighting, perhaps a bright framed box around the selected loop point.
And perhaps a very bright song position line so you can easily see where is the current song position.
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DickyDutch If you get crackles it means your loop points or not set correctly. And to delete a region highlight it and tap on the delete button in the details table below the waveform view.
Damir You can assign keywords to song or playlists. Just assign a keyword to a playlist and the filter will work as expected.
Damir Let’s say end of loop is 1min I increase to 1.30 I hear the first minute then nothing for 30 sec then audio comes back at beginning I hear it till the one minute mark again, if I stop play and start again it plays through correctly right through 1.30 min.
That's what I meant with: you need to restart playback when changing loop points. The playback schedules the currently defined audio region for playback. But I think I know why you hear 30 seconds of silence. Part of the player thinks the loop is longer than what has been scheduled. I guess that's a bug that I will take care of. An automated stop/start after a region change should do the trick.
MasterAnt Did you use the zoom functionality like seen in the short clip in my posting? I find setting loop points works quite well in the zoomed view. Granted, it does not work well on an iPhone but the iPad in landscape mode works fine.
Damir how can i activate and deactivate audio mute on the software itself without a foot pedal , is there a way to do this on the software ?
You can set the assignable buttons to mute/unmute or reassign your pedal button or quite and restart the app.
Damir Single touch selects the loop to be next.
Single touch again on this section cancels this request in case you changed your mind.
Long press on a section puts it in permanent loop.
Long press again on the same section cancels this request.
Any other opinions on this? My take is that if you want to exit a looping region you need to deactivate the loop and I don't want to have to keep my finger pressed on the screen to trigger this action during a performance. Therefore I made it the other way around (short tap for loop and long tap for selection). Another reason: loop triggering will be needed more often then selecting the next region.
Damir The other observation is if i long press a section to highlight it then i long press it to cancel this request the audio jumps to my finger position which is very bad as you didn't want a sudden song position change you just wanted to cancel the loop selection.
You probably wiggled your finger a bit. Disable waveform seek during playback to prevent it.
Damir A double click on a loop section immediately pays this section.
I can't use a double tap gesture because that would delay all single taps. Else it would not be possible to distinguish between a single and a double tap. And I tried it and it feels completely wrong when you single tap and the action is triggered half a second later.
Creating a loop , as already pointed out is very hard if not impossible to create an accurate loop.
Other Logic suggestions.
Once you create a loop as it pops up it should be highlighted in the first colour of the chart and should play from beginning to end and loop again without any interaction from user.
The loop switch in each loop point should have no affect how the editor player functions, the editor player should always play in a loop so you can select your loop points.
There is a fault where if you select new loop points the player doesn't update till you stop and start the player again this is very important.
Zooming in when long pressing is nowhere near accurate enough for accurate loop creation,
The audio scrubbing replay and visual display is too coarse and inaccurate to be useful, its a great idea and I've used it on other software but its too rough in ST3, i like the concept but it needs tweaking.
My suggestion if possible is similar to Ants, the grab and drag to get a rough loop is fine but instead of a long press and zoom, i would tap on the loop and it opens up a more accurate editor that looks at the in and out points only zoomed in enough so you can precisely shift these points and the loop point would concentrate on the first and last 10 seconds of the loop point so when you open this window you immediately hear the last 10 seconds of the loop then it plays the first 10 seconds of the loop and it keeps playing this in a loop of its own so you can accurately shift the two zoomed in points for precise editing once you are happy with it hit stop exits to the normal edit window choose a new loop hit play touch the same loop opens the precise zoomed it editor again.
At the moment you would spend hours to create usable loops and still not be possibly happy.
Some other feedback
Next + loop creation chooses the next colour and so on.
The colours should be visible in the editor.
The colours should be more different from each other.
At the moment if you enter the audio editor that contains loops all you get is the whole song without any loop selection and a play button, this seems pointless, at least the first loop should be already selected for you so you can see your other options and that then encourages you to touch another loop point and so on, you entered this section to edit loops not to play the whole song. Your loop points should be all highlighted in the colour you chose.
If you have engaged the loop switch on a loop making this as a default the editor loop section should have the same loop icon appear on all loops that have been engaged for this just like in play mode, this than makes it obvious what selections you have chosen for default looping without having to highlight every loop in the editor.
Ok for now i will give it a rest i have managed to crash the software a number of times and have sent the report back to Peter.
I think once this looping feature is ironed out it will work well on stage, could i use it now?
No unfortunately its biggest problem is its loop creation speed and accuracy.
Hello and thank you for this work on ST3. Regarding the looper it is very difficult and very long to find the right loop setting on Ipad, unfortunately impossible to test on my Imac which is no longer very young ... I think it would be easier to spot the cue points when zooming by seeing the red playback bar. As far as I'm concerned, it's impossible to loop correctly with a finger on the iPad, on the other hand with a mouse it's much more practical. To be continued.... Thank you again .Sam (Paris/ France )
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Samfbk Ha ha! i just bought a new iMac because my old one just didn't reach the OS required to run ST3 beta , I give Apple credit for being very good at grabbing money out of peoples pockets, and i totally agree with you and others the loop creation system is hard work and depending on the song type to what results you get, but I'm sure Peter will pull a rabbit out of the hat to make it work. It looks to be a great feature.
Sorry but on my iPad and using my finger I have found it impossible to create a perfect loop! I’m addition when in the loop editor I’ve found that in the portrait mode the option to delete a loop and the start and end points do no show. If I rotate iPad to the portrait mode the blow up view of the loop does not work when holding down finger.
Damir
Single touch selects the loop to be next.
Single touch again on this section cancels this request in case you changed your mind.
Long press on a section puts it in permanent loop.
Long press again on the same section cancels this request.
Peter
Any other opinions on this? My take is that if you want to exit a looping region you need to deactivate the loop and I don't want to have to keep my finger pressed on the screen to trigger this action during a performance. Therefore I made it the other way around (short tap for loop and long tap for selection). Another reason: loop triggering will be needed more often then selecting the next region.
Damir
I see your point and its fine for some.
But the way i am suggesting the operation is to make it very easy to jump around the song not so much to loop a section, i find i normally want to jump to the end of song to finish it earlier or perhaps the crowd got in to the song towards its end so i want to jump back to perhaps the solo or first verse again, now its a lot easier to just touch the section quickly to create my need than to long press.
Here is a suggestion that might work for both, what if you single tap to select another section that is not playing selects it to be the next played loop but if you are already in a playing loop and you single tap on it , it turns on the permanent loop feature you can stay on this till the cows come home but if you single tap it again it cancels the looping and plays on or you could have single hit another loop which would end the last loop and jump to the new one.
This means there is no long press involved the user can easily engage looping on the existing playing section using single tap and a third single tap clears everything but a single tap on any other non playing section places that as the next to play section.
I think that would please everyone and maintain easy work flow.
People that have programmed a permanent loop point on some sections are also happy because when this section is reached and played a single tap clears the permanent loop or a single tap on any other section that is not playing sets that to be the next to play.
HOWS THAT! Pow wow simplez!
Peter while I'm running hot, here is a suggestion, when you load a song to play that has a loop from the beginning of song it is immediately highlighted as the section thats going to play.
But if you single tap another loop section while not playing then you hit start this loop point beginning starts to play instead of the actual songs beginning.
This allows the user to go straight in to a verse or chorus by choosing the appropriate section, it maximises the use of the looping feature.