Bluetooth volume

Damir

JonathanS before we can help explain your system, how do you mix your sources, you mentioned a keyboard I assume you have a microphone what else do you run and what is your mixing device now, so then we can get a good idea of what might work best for you in a minimalistic way, I run very minimally having at minimum 3 sound sources and maximum of 6 sources , and I totally agree with you there is nothing better than a solid nice big knob you can easily grab and turn, if I don’t have that I feel very nervous on stage specially when running a 3500 watt PA system, it’s like driving a car without a hand brake, it’s all good without it until one day you quickly need it.

JonathanS

Voice and keyboard are not really relevant to the question as they will still be going through the digital mixer (Bose T4S which has no Bluetooth). I’m only asking about the iPad as it can be connected directly and wirelessly to the different speakers (only one at a time as they connect to each other IF I need them both on stage which is less common). If the Stage Traxx volume is subtle enough it will do the job but not if it raises and lowers the volume by too large increments which may be noticeable.
Bluetooth… it’s the future!

Damir

JonathanS Hi Jonathan, now i see what you are trying to do , its basically connect your device via bluetooth directly to a PA speaker and you are concearned about the volume increments beeing too rough.
I never use the ipad volume buttons as they are a very large volume jumps, not very user friendly but if you maximize this fader and just use the ST3 faders from either bluetooth remote volume pedals or on the interface itself the increments a much more smoother and very usable on stage.
At this stage of bluetooth development, there is no way on this earth i would rely on having a device directly hooked up to my PA system via bluetooth unless i wanted to destroy my speaker components cause i hated my pa system .
All it takes is a little click or thump and say by by to the money youve just been working hard for.
Bluetooth the way it is now is definitely not the future for us on stage, yes for domestic use and close remote control but definitely not for thousands of watts pa sustems thet require absolute reliability, its like going to the casino to make money.

peter

The iPad hardware volume slider ist subtle. The hardware volume buttons are not. The volume will jump a bit when you use them.

Bluetooth devices behave the same as far as I can tell. The volume slider will be subtle and any hardware buttons on the device will have audible jumps.

Correction: Depends on the bluetooth device. For example an Anker Soundcore Motion+ speaker will only set volumes to certain levels that the volume buttons also select. So there are only a handful of volume settings.

JonathanS

peter Thank you Peter, how about the Stage Traxx volume soft-buttons? Subtle or a sledgehammer? 🤣

peter

Each press is +/- 1 dB. That is a good compromise between fine but still noticeable.

JonathanS

peter Thank you, this is great news!

DickyDutch

Sorry don’t agree. I have used Bluetooth to send audio to my Bose S1 pro speakers for a couple of years now using the STAGETRAXX volume buttons to adjust volume where necessary- absolutely not a problem!

Damir

DickyDutch that’s great news perhaps technology is improving, what is the actual brand and model of your device if you don’t mind sharing the info, my Bluetooth experience is not so good years ago so I’ve kept away and now I only use Bluetooth on ST3 for remote control I don’t even like computer keyboards being wireless as that have lag and the batteries always need replacement . Do you have any delay problems like your lyrics and the sound you hear a slightly out of sync or is that a non issue? And also how far can you set up your speakers from yourself on stage? Is the Bluetooth built in to your powered speaker so you don’t need separate power source
or do you run on batteries.
I am always looking for a more efficient way of operating and if there is one thing I hate most in performing is the packing up bloody tangled cables and drunk people trying to help me at the end of a gig.If I could I would eliminate ALL cables.
Perhaps there is hope, so please let us know if you have come across a way to eliminate some cables.🙏

Damir

DickyDutch hi Dicky, by coincidence a week ago I have purchased a high power Bluetooth receiver which I assume is the latest technology, and am planning to test it to see if it’s viable to minimise my cables on stage, but it hasn’t arrived yet so I can’t comment on it yet. One issue I have with it, it will be mains powered , this means I need extra power lead near the speaker, then it means I need to plug it in to the speaker this means I still need a short cable to the speaker , then I need to pair it with the device, so by the time you add up all the disadvantages it only gives you one advantage, the freedom to play a track from anywhere in the room as long as it’s not too far as the limitation of Bluetooth is with this high power unit of 50meters.
To me introducing Bluetooth to speakers is good if you simply want to play background music from your phone from the bar on your break and not have to go to the stage.
How do you then feed the PA with all the other sources like microphones, instruments, iPads etc, this means you need a mixer, this then means you need either cable or another Bluetooth wireless system where you have a stereo transmitter but then you need two separate receivers as your PA speakers a spread apart , this then means you need a long unbalanced lead from one speaker to the other if you have one stereo receiver.
No matter which way you look at it the advantages of wireless connection to PA speakers are greatly reduced by the disadvantages so in my opinion it’s not a good way to go yet.
If the Speakers and mixers had this built in and it just worked as you power up your equipment and setup once , from then on forever more it solidly fires up and automatically sets itself up and absolutely guarantees no dropouts or delay within a 100 meter radius then I would say I will buy it and stuff the price.
But for now I plan to use my Bluetooth new receiver into my stereo input of a channel on my Yamaha mini mixer that is near me on the stage with two cables feeding my 3500watt Pa so I can sit at the bar and use my ST3 on my phone as my background music player, and my iPad hard wired to mixer to do my show.
If you have a more efficient way please let us know I am always keen to simplify my rig, cost is not an issue.
Thanks Damir

JonathanS

DickyDutch Hi Dicky, do you use a sub with the Bose S1 and if so which one? I have only just bought the S1 and so far I am using a Compact without its top as a sub and it’s not ideal as it’s not meant to be used like that but it works and I already own it so it’s a cheaper option. I am concerned that the Sub 1 would be overkill for my smaller gigs and it’s not cheap. Other subs are available but do I want to move away from Bose? Not really.

JonathanS

Damir You may be a little behind the times here. All the latest Bose systems include Bluetooth, I have the Pro 8 and an S1 Pro which both have it. The S1 can be used on its built-in battery up to 11 hours.
Normally I use a Bose Tonematch digital mixer for everything when solo, duo and trio but as it only has 4 to 6 inputs (depending on what you’re using) it is a little limited. However I have more recently connected my iPad to my PA systems via Bluetooth - not at the same time - and they are rock solid. I understand that two S1 Pros can be Bluetoothed simultaneously for mono or stereo output or alternatively via balanced TRS cable.
Going forward I intend to connect my iPad via Bluetooth to the speaker/s to both reduce the cable connections and free up a channel, hence my earlier questions about the Stage Traxx volume control, while still using the mixer for voice and keyboard via cables to the PA. This removes an audio or usb cable from the iPad to the mixer as well as a Camera Connector adapter and it also means that iPad volume control is in front of me instead of having to turn to the mixer by my side.
Battery Bluetooth receivers are available for non-BT powered speakers, see below. It’s unfortunate you have bought a mains powered one.
https://www.andertons.co.uk/alto-professional-bluetooth-ultimate-receiver-btultimate?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImMP3lK6d9wIVzd_tCh3R1wt6EAYYAyABEgIgxvD_BwE

Damir

JonathanS yes I must admit I have fallen behind I’ve stopped going to the shops when I bought my last system cause there’s always new and better things coming out, recently I bought the new Yamaha 12 inch speakers and use them with my old JBL 18inch subs, none have Bluetooth built in I didn’t even consider that fact as I was not a Bluetooth fan when it first came out, it was very problematic.
In Australia we are usually behind times anyway which in some ways is good because all the crap that comes out normally doesn’t make our shores as we learn by others mistakes, I really appreciate your comments I did know about the Alto Bluetooth device but never considered it as a serious bit of gear as no one I know has used it, so it is good to know this to be a good option if needing to go wireless, we don’t seem to have a great deal of powered speakers with Bluetooth option on them here in Australia either we are really behind times or perhaps it’s something that’s not proven to be effective yet, I will definitely go to my favourite shop and interrogate my old mates to why we don’t have more Bluetooth options in speakers.

Thanks again Damir

DickyDutch

JonathanS No I don’t use a sub with my Bose S1 Pro speakers. I find that the S1s have a very good bass response on their own and for the small gigs I do, (say up to 50 people) and the type of music and volume I play at, their performance is more than adequate. Also having a sub is all extra equipment to carry about ! I normally have one S1 positioned on a speaker stand on the right hand side of me and the other on the floor behind me to my left and angled upwards acting as a monitor. Both speakers, which are battery powered, are linked with a trs cable going from the audio output of the one to the input of the other. My mic and guitar go into channels 1 & 2 respectively of the ‘floor’ S1 and the my STAGETRAXX backing tracks are Bluetoothed to the built in Bluetooth channel 3. This works well for me.

Beejaywh

I’ve been using Logitech Bluetooth receivers (x2, one for each iPad) straight into my desk for over four years now without any glitch or trouble. They have their own power supply and are hard mounted into my flight case with a clear line of sight to my iPads. No discernible latency issues and the quality through the PA is identical to being hard wired.

Totally recommended

This is the type I use from Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Streaming-Wireless-Receiver-Speakers/dp/B01CZVCYU0/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=logitech+bluetooth+receiver&qid=1650365709&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=AO53KSG35TXDB&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMU5RS1JIRkZGUzBHJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTYzNjc1M0NHTkZPRlVPQzBJTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDQ0NDM0MVVQNDdZVlZXWU5GMiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Damir

Beejaywh thanks for the info, i actually was looking at that exact unit and was about to buy it to try it, but when i saw 10 to 12 meter operation i was a bit concearned, so i thought id buy a higher power unit that works 50 meters , so i can safely go to the bar and still operate my iphone for background music, i hope ive made the right choice , its very confourting to know the sound quality is good and no splats or glitches occur cause that was my main concern, i didnt want to risk a 3500watt splat going out to the audiance, once i get my unit i will see how i go and provide some more feedback on it i am hoping that all units built now days would have same performance.
Thanks again for this fantastic feedback it is really helpful specially to those that dont have options to visit a local shop.
Cheers Damir

MasterAnt

Beejaywh that link brings up an "esinkin" brand. The Logitech receiver comes up separately when I redo your search.

Every weird-name brand I've tried has this Chinese or computer-generated voice saying "Bluetooth connected" and "Bluetooth disconnected" at about 12dB louder than anything else you could possibly send through the device. Can't have that live, of course.

Can you confirm if you have the Logitech or the Esinkin and if yours has that ridiculous audio connection notification?

@Damir I guess you also got the Esinkin come up as that one mentions 10-12 metres, whereas the Logitech claims 15m. I guess it uses a very old BT standard, having first been sold in 2014. Maybe there's a newer model?

Damir

MasterAnt yes I did not get the Logitech and these sort of things are the reason I have shied away from Bluetooth.

peter

Please remember: a wireless connection will only be as strong as the weakest link involved. I am highly sceptical that a receiver can claim 50m regardless of the sender.

Damir

peter yes I don’t trust any advertisements, in the case of receivers it’s the sensitivity of pickup that matters , it is possible that some receivers have very sensitive tuners while others are not so, that’s why I won’t comment on anything regarding the one I chose to buy until I test it myself, this is why it’s so great that trustworthy and sharing people are commenting on the support system it is a great source of important information.
All these tips just make ST3 better and better on stage my last gig I had no stress whatsoever with my gear and a very strong connection with the audience and that’s what it’s all about.
ST3 is a great example of a powerful yet simple tool that gives you just what you need and no more as it knows what it is trying to achieve,
An great example of an over bloated over complicated software that does a very simple job is OnSong I can’t understand why you would put yourself through all that effort to get very little advantage, so I hope ST3 doesn’t head that way, I rather that it fixes all those little things that need polish or perhaps changes the way it does things to improve its efficiency, on stage it’s great it now needs to improve on its preparation method of entering and editing of text and time codes etc, this is also very important as it’s where we spend most of our time, this only applies to more advanced users, as it’s more than good enough for simple users.
Cheers Damir