Stage Traxx beta version 3.0.0

coopdawg

peter will this load to both our iPad and iPhone, or will we need to purchase separately?

peter

dellamore In my show i need to have the playlist in order . And when i play a song i can choose the next song in this playlist without change the order .

I don't understand, why do you want to keep the original playlist order when you jump around in the playlist anyway?

In ST3 you have playlists and you have the queue. Playlists are fixed. You can load a playlist into the queue and then move songs around as you wish. This will not affect the playlist. Only the queue is changed. Selecting the next song to play is just a double tap on the song you want. It will move to the top of the list.

JDSMUSIC As for the single tap to add playlist to the queue, perhaps add a Slider in the Settings much like you did for other things.

An option might make sense. For example to switch the single tap behavior and the accessory tap.

dellamore ok but visually it changes the order of the songs program and for me it’s not good .
I don’t think it’s better

That's only for the queue, not for the playlist. I think this is really good.

coopdawg will this load to both our iPad and iPhone, or will we need to purchase separately?

It is a single purchase for all your devices. There is a "Restore purchases" button in the app which will unlock the full version on all your devices once purchased.

coopdawg Question: going into the playlist tab, then to playlist info, what does the autoplay button suppose to do from this window?

Primary use is background music. If you enable autoplay in a playlist and load that playlist into the queue, the queue will also turn on autoplay and all songs will play without stopping.

dellamore

peter because i need to know when i sing where i am in the program . My playlist contain 80 songs . I i return at the top or bottom when i play a song i must scroll to see the next song ? i choose song with my sensibility and it suppose i can jump one two three or more song and return but it's always in the same zone of play list . that is the reason the i like your first version . and more Visualy the colour of playing song and next song was perfect when you play to identify very quickly where you are

dellamore

peter i think that you could install in playlist mode the same system that the old version and then user can choice better for us .
I know musician near from me use stage traxx that will be destabilized

coopdawg

peter okay, I see how it works now. BTW, fantastic app!!!

dellamore

peter
Anyway I will buy the new version to test it on my iPhone.To support you and your job !
I’ll test it and get back to you
see you soon thanks peter

musicadi

Peter, I understand what dellamore and DickyDutch are saying.

I guess we are used to the direct song player concept, but not the queue concept. Honestly, for me also, the old behavior was more logical and more intuitive at first glance, but I got used to the new concept. I LOVE the new tabs in the player view, this is incredibly helpful 🙂

However, it helps a lot if I have a clear visual feedback of what’s going on in my song list (played song, next song, already played songs - all clearly marked)

Since now there is a “Songs” tab in the player view, maybe you could implement this color code concept in the “Songs” view (both in the main Songs window and in the Songs tab of the player window)? So, mark played/first in queue with a backgound, “next in queue” with another background and “already played” with yet another background. Then maybe also add a “Clear played mark” button.

Here’s why at least the “Already played” mark would be better for the way I use the app: I play in the bar of a cruise ship, have the same guests for 14 days. I don’t want to repeat songs during these 14 days, so I want to cleary see in my Songlist which songs I already played. Then, when the cruise is over, new guests are coming. That’s when I hit “Clear DONE” in ST2 and then repeat the process 🙂. While History is really great, it is not usable for this situation, because it only shows what I already played, but not the rest of my songs. On the other hand, if I go to Songs, I am not seeing what I already played.

As for the playlists, maybe you could somehow play them directly, bypassing the queue? So, basically implement ST2 behaviour only for playlists?

DickyDutch

Hi Peter I have been using ST3 now for several weeks at live gigs and have found no real problems or show stoppers. At first It took a little time to get used to it but now it find it dead easy to use.However there is one issue that I have where I think ST2 is better. Let’s say I create a single playlist for a venue but know I am going to take breaks at some during the performance. If during these breaks I want to use ST3 to play background music and load my ‘background music’ playlist, this clears my original queue. When I start playing again and reload my performance playlist the songs I’ve already performed are listed back into the queue - but are not coloured (as played ) as in ST2 so more difficult to know where I am. I know I can look at the history but this is not as user friendly. The coloured coded concept is much better in ST2 in my opinion. I realise there are user work arounds to this problem eg several playlists for a performance ( first spot, second, spot etc) and using a different app for break music. Anyway keep up the good work I still think the app is great! Regards Richard

musicadi

dellamore ok but visually it changes the order of the songs program and for me it’s not good .
I don’t think it’s better

I had this concern also 🙂 Your playlist actually keeps the song order, but when you are playing things, you are doing that from the queue, not the playlist itself. The playlist is only “transfered” to the queue when you tap it.

I guess one option is to double tap or swipe to the right the title that you want to play next and it will jump to the top of the queue. Of course, if you, say, just want so skip song 2 and play the list from song 3 onwards, then you have a problem, since your queue would now look like this:
Song 1
Song 3
Song 2
Song 4 aso...

The other option is to swipe to the left and remove the song(s) you want to skip. But here, if you later decide you still want to play it, you would have to add it to the queue again.

musicadi

peter I see a message "Added song to queue" pop up when I add a song. But it is indeed missing if you add a playlist. I will fix that.

Weird, the message is gone on my iPad 🙂

Will try to delete and reinstall, see what happens.

peter

I know that the queue concept takes a bit of time getting used to it. But in the end it is much more flexible and powerful as the fixed playlist handling in ST2. For example, in the old version you could not just add a song to the current playlist. To do that you needed to dive deep into the playlist manager.

Queue handling (and also playlist handling) is the part of the app with the highest complexity. It is absolutely not possible to offer an option to have either the new or the old system. So I will stick to the new as I firmly believe that once you get used to it, you will appreciate the benefits.

Regarding the color coding: I will add coloring for all songs that have been played and can be found in the history tab. You can clear that by clearing the history. I could also add an action to load only songs form a playlist into the queue that have not yet been played.

But I really don't see a benefit in marking the top most song in the queue as the current song and the next one as the next song. I mean the markings would always stay in place. There is no case where other songs than the 2 topmost would be marked. Is there really a benefit in this?

musicadi Weird, the message is gone on my iPad 🙂

Will try to delete and reinstall, see what happens.

Found it, the message is not showing if you have "add to top of queue" as the default action. I will fix that.

EddieH

I double tap a song to move it to the top. The song (s) I skip stays in the queue.

dellamore

musicadi same thing for me 😉

musicadi

peter But I really don't see a benefit in marking the top most song in the queue as the current song and the next one as the next song. I mean the markings would always stay in place. There is no case where other songs than the 2 topmost would be marked. Is there really a benefit in this?

Yes, it's logical for the Queue, but if instead of the Queue window/tab, you have the Playlist or Songs window/tab open, it would be really useful to have a visual feedback in these sections. So, actually, the backgrounds could only be there in the Songs and Playlist windows/tabs.

dellamore

dellamore
Dear peter ;
In fact i understand what you say about your new version and want you want to do but you must know
that musician and performer have a lot of way to perform you show . and for for shure when you are alone or in a little band you don(t have any time to choose the next song and you do it when you play one . So more visual and more instinctive will be more better for us . And you must know that the order of the playlist is very very important for us even if i jump song . Exemple : at the end of the show ( 2 hours or 2 hours 30 )if want to play a song than i jump at the start it will be very difficult to find a song unplayed with is at the start because the order of the cue will be not the original playlist order .

peter

dellamore In fact i understand what you say about your new version and want you want to do but you must know
that musician and performer have a lot of way to perform you show . and for for shure when you are alone or in a little band you don(t have any time to choose the next song and you do it when you play one . So more visual and more instinctive will be more better for us . And you must know that the order of the playlist is very very important for us even if i jump song . Exemple : at the end of the show ( 2 hours or 2 hours 30 )if want to play a song than i jump at the start it will be very difficult to find a song unplayed with is at the start because the order of the cue will be not the original playlist order .

Did you try out the queue system? Because I don't understand why you would have to scroll up at the end of a long playlist. Played songs are removed from the queue. So there would only be a couple of songs left, or am I missing something? And even if a lot of songs are left, you are always working on the top of the queue because the list will automatically scroll to the top once you select a song to play next.

musicadi Interesting idea with the 2 item queue. But what I don't understand is how do you propose to keep the queue filled? So when song 1 finishes, song 2 becomes song 1 and now the queue has only one entry. You would need to manually fill up the queue after each song has been played. I don't think that is very practical.

musicadi Yes, it's logical for the Queue, but if instead of the Queue window/tab, you have the Playlist or Songs window/tab open, it would be really useful to have a visual feedback in these sections.

I see, yes, for the other tabs it makes sense.

musicadi

@peter - I definitely think implementing the color codes in both Playlists and Songs views (on the main windows and also on the tabs in the player view) would at least partially solve a lot of people’s problem.

I, for one, would then probably never leave the “Songs” tab from withing the Player view 🙂

Basically, you would only need to change the background to blue for first in queue, to yellow for second in queue and to purple for “already played”

Also, here’s another idea for solving the playlists/queue confusion. Just add an option like:

Queue functionality: Functionality 1 - full, Functionality 2 - Only 2 Songs

Functionality 1 - the way it currently works

Functionality 2 - you always only add 2 songs to the queue: the one you tapped and the one which is next on the list (Playlist or Library)

Scenario 1:
1. Tap Song 1
- Song 1 added first in queue
- Song 2 added second in queue
(Song 2 will depend on whether you tapped Song 1 from within a Playlist window/tab or from within the Songs window/tab)
2. Song 1 finishes
- Song 1 is removed from the queue
- Song 2: first in queue
- Song 3: second in queue
.... repeat the process until last item (whether it’s a Playlist or the Songs library)

Scenario 2:
1. Same as above
2. Tap Song 3 while Song 1 is playing
- Song 2 is replaced with Song 3
3. Song 1 finishes
- Song 1 is removed from the queue
- Song 3: first in queue
- Song 4: second in queue
.... repeat process until last item in the Playlist/Library

Scenario 3
1. Same as Scenario 1
2. Tap Song 3 BEFORE hitting Play
- Song 1 is replaced with Song 3
- Song 2 is replaced with Song 4
...

Scenario 4:
1. Tap Song 1/Playlist 1 (or Songs window/tab)
- Song 1/Playlist 1: first in queue
- Song 2/Playlist 1: second in queue
2. Tap Song 1/Playlist 2 while Song 1/Playlist 1 is playing
- Song 2/Playlist 1 is replaced by Song 1/Playlist 2, then
3. Song 1/Playlist 1 finishes
- Song 1/Playlist 2: first in queue
- Song 2/Playlist 2: second in queue

Scenario 5:
1. Same as Scenario 4
2. Tap Song 1/Playlist 2 BEFORE hitting play
- Song 1/Playlist 1 replaced by Song 1/Playlist 2
- Song 2/Playlist 1 replaced by Song 2/Playlist 2

dellamore

peter
it simply
because as I know the order by heart it was very easy and very fast to find a song . As the songs played disappear I no longer have the markers and it takes more time to identify the location of it . I know this song is next to this one. If a song changes places it’s longer to find . But i promise i try .

musicadi

peter Interesting idea with the 2 item queue. But what I don't understand is how do you propose to keep the queue filled? So when song 1 finishes, song 2 becomes song 1 and now the queue has only one entry. You would need to manually fill up the queue after each song has been played. I don't think that is very practical.

Actually, if the "Only 2 Songs in queue" option would be selected in Settings, the app would need to automatically add the next song to the queue. So, as soon as Song 1 finishes, it gets removed from the queue and at the same time Song 3 gets added after Song 2. So, basically, you will always have 2 songs in the queue.

EddieH

I’m not trying to be snarky but this is a new app with a new workflow. I think Peter has done an excellent job of getting in the best features within the constraints of coding. Sure I really like ST2 and I know what I need to do during a performance,, but there is a lot to like in ST3 as well. We should use ST2 as a reference in our testing but wishing it to be ST2, we already have it. My recommendation is to verify your new workflow for ST3.

musicadi

EddieH Sorry if my comments come over as "picking on the app" 🙂 I really love it and it's gonna be an amazing upgrade.

Yes, of course Peter has done an excellent job, but I think these comments are actually one of the purposes of a beta test (besides bug hunting 🙂 ). It's up to him to decide whether the suggestions are good enough to be implemented or not 🙂

Damir

EddieH I don’t agree with your thinking we shouldn’t give up anything we really liked about V2 , but we should expect a more powerful tool from V3
Tempo/pitch change on the run etc.
These things really matter yes the way V2 loaded new songs on the run sucked and the way it synced up with iTunes was confusing and frustrating but fix that don’t change something that really worked well on stage for the sake of change.
a simple one page interface that had everything you needed right there in your face or on your foot.
A powerful yet simple operation volume remembered for each song and playlist master volume easily accessible everything neatly presented and remembered these things are what matter .
You fire up the old version from last gig clear played songs you are ready to go again lyrics in your face all the time nothing hidden or on another page this is the key to a well designed program to top it all off I haven’t managed to crash it once, which is unheard of as I am the master of finding how to crash any program.
I will end up on V3 when it gets to that stage and puts a smile on my face when I’m on stage like V2 did.

musicadi

dellamore With the latest beta, you can actually switch to Songs or Playlist view while playing.

So, start the app, go to Songs, tap your first song and play it. If you have "Show lyrics on play" ON, the player window with the lyrics will open. Now, above the Play/Pause button, tap on Songs or Playlists (whichever is good for you.

From then on, you have your full list in the right order and whenever you tap a song, it will be added to the queue and will play next. @peter - Actually, here's where the color codes from ST2 would come in handy. So, people who want to use the app the "classic" way will just stay in the Songs tab

peter

musicadi So, as soon as Song 1 finishes, it gets removed from the queue and at the same time Song 3 gets added after Song 2. So, basically, you will always have 2 songs in the queue.

But this is the part it gets complicated. What is the correct song to play next (song 3)? The first in the current tab? Doesn't seem likely. It would always be the same song. Then the first unplayed song in the current tab? Might work if you are in a playlist, but would not work if you are in the list of playlists or history (no unplayed song in both cases) or in the song list (alphabetical order). What if you are in the queue? Where to load the next song from?

It would be a mess to build an algorithm for this. It would mostly consist of very special rules that would cater for all the corner cases where I would have no idea why the hell the thing is doing this or that if I need to work on that code in the future. That's not maintainable.

musicadi Yes, of course Peter has done an excellent job, but I think these comments are actually one of the purposes of a beta test (besides bug hunting 🙂 ). It's up to him to decide whether the suggestions are good enough to be implemented or not 🙂

Exactly, that's why I participate in this discussion instead of just coding away the way I see fit. But in this case, the decision to move towards a play queue is such a central part of the whole design process that it is not really possible to replace it with another fundamentally different approach without rewriting major parts of the app.

You see, the thing about the queue that is a really great benefit from a coding perspective is that you have the current and next song on the top of that list. Always! Without Exceptions! This makes it possible to concentrate on editing possibilities in the queue. The app makes it really easy to change the queue order and add remove songs. This is something that was not possible with the old approach where we have a fixed list and use markers for the current and next song.

Bazz02 Would it be possible in Song and Playlist mode to colour mark the song playing.
At least at a glance you know where you are.

Yes, I will add that in the next beta.

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