Sound quality

Regina

How do I get the best sound from my iPad2 through my PA system? Does it depend on the iPad. Sometimes my backing tracks sound distorted - some have too much base, others do not have clarity in frequencys. I am using MP3 format. Is there anything I can do to improve the quality of the output? Please help. Appreciate it.

BrianGold

Regina
Hi Regina, I have done some investigation of this over the years. Previously I used mini disc and then laptop to play backing tracks which I stored on my (Windows) PC as mp3s. There is a tiny discernible difference between them and wav formats but it's only really noticeable to the human ear if you wear headphones and listen VERY carefully! In a live performance situation the differences are entirely UNnoticeable, honestly because there's so much background noise and there are also reflections off walls and ceilings, etc...

When using my laptop I had noticed that quality from the headphone socket was, well, rubbish to be honest. 90% of Windows PCs and laptops use the cheapest sound interface built onto their motherboards. They are not good for high quality performance. When I used a laptop I bought an external sound card and played music through it and compared it with the headphone socket. The difference was remarkable, very noticeable and so I always performed with the external sound card (MAYA USB44).

However, for the last 3 years I've used iPad for three reasons:-

StageTraxx is a brilliant player and can be used to display lyrics/chords as well as organize playlists easily. I could not find anything similar for the laptop.
It is much cheaper than a laptop. My first iPad was bought via eBay for £150 and was great, I've since upgraded to an Air 2. The last laptop I had cost £700 and was built to my specification to include a SSD drive containing all my tracks and programs. Trouble with it was I also had to splash out £85 for the external sound card and a similar amount again for a karaoke player - which was the only thing I could find to allow me to setup playlists and play a single track then pause. Most players don't do this, they simply play a track from a list non-stop which as you'll appreciate is no good for live performance when you need to stop between songs
The headphone output on the iPad is far superior to my laptop one. Apple hardware is superb and has never failed me in 100s of gigs. The laptop had to reboot mid-gig several times over the years. I believe that Apple include the best technology they can and I am extremely comfortable with the iPad's headphone output.

If you've got issues with the quality of the tracks I would suggest you look to improve them at source. You could obtain software to try and clean them up a bit. I use Adobe Audition or Audacity which have great filtering techniques - to emphasize or de-emphasize bass or treble frequencies (you can even specify the range). They also have the ability to normalize tracks together so they play with minimal use of the volume button (because one track is louder than others). Look up "normalizing". Am sure Peter will have mentioned it somewhere in this forum.

Good luck

peter

I find the standard headphone outputs sufficient for live use. If you need the best possible audio quality, you could use an external sound card.

Of course you need to make sure that your audio files have a high quality. You could also switch to Apple Lossless format instead of mp3. Myself, I am fine with mp3s with at least 192kBit. I did some blind listening tests and was not able to discern mp3s with 192kBit from uncompressed WAV files. So I now mostly use mp3s with 256kbit to be on the safe side.

EnricoCarigli

BrianGold hi BrianGold.
Thanks for input.
I have tried to research the iPad Vs laptop for stagetraxx. I found no answers. Yours is the first read to point out about sound quality.
I did read that laptops can have more storage etc and can work faster and usually are cheaper than Apple products. So I will look again at what might be the best second hand iPad on offer. Any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.
Ken

Regina

Thank you guys for replying! 👍

peter

Make sure it runs with at least iOS13. Stage Traxx will work with iOS11 at the moment, but I have already stuff on my todo list that will only work with iOS13 or later. These things are currently planned for version 3.7 which is due in about a year but no use in buying an iPad now that will not be able to run the newest Stage Traxx version in a year.

davedroug

use an 7. Audiolab M-DAC or iFi Zen DAC V2 or simular to enhance all your music for live work and only use 32bit floating and 48hz music files if you can, use through blue tooth or usb from your i pad mine connects to the DCA from the ipad by bluetooth then goes via leads to the mixing desk, the difference is unbelievably its as good as it gets live wise ,but you need good quality wave files to start with no mp3 ,you can convert your MP3 to wave if the quality is good enough doing it this way bypasses the ipads own DAC which are really not that good and using 32bit floating stops the file from peaking out and distorting but remember your music will only be has good has the original files ,bad files make bad music ,

peter

Converting an mp3 to wav will not help with audio quality. mp3 is a lossy format and whatever information got lost converting audio to mp3 you will not be able to get back by converting it to wave.

davedroug

peter didn't know that, but I've certainty improved a few mp3 I've used by converting to wave and balancing them out better with the graphics then saving them at 32bit 48hz and using through the external DAC

Damir

peter Hi guys since this is a sound quality discussion, yesterday for the first time I had a distorted track play out after a track that was clean just before and the next track was also ok, as I did all level checks the day before I was very surprised this happened, after research I discovered this, I monitored all my track volumes with playlist volume at zero the iPad at maximum level as it always is, now the song that sounded clean in my test I manipulated it’s EQ settings to suit which required 3db boosting on lows and high frequencies to make it match my other songs, but when I performed live I boosted my playlist volume to maximum level as all my backing was low it all sounded fine until I got to this track that had the boost of lows and highs, this track played at the same level as the others but it was clipping.
So what I will point out be very careful when using the EQs.
This is what I would expect to happen in ST3 using a Normalised to zero track, I should be able to have all master faders iPad, song, playlist and EQ at maximum and no distortion at the iPad output, I know this would bring the normal audio level way down but this can be compensated by the external mixer, this then would guarantee you would never get distortion on your output, perhaps have a compensation audio boost circuit to be inserted when iPad is playing through its own speakers and this compensation to be removed when headphone or usb outputs are used, this would make all the volume/EQ manipulation bullet proof.
At the moment be very careful when using EQ or when boosting your volumes as it most likely will cause you grief.

peter

I get a lot of questions why the sound output is lower than on other apps. I am not going to lower that level any further.

But you have the option to do it yourself. Just use the "Gain" slider in the master equalizer.

Damir

peter Yes now that i think about it the software could not distinguish between headphones being plugged in or a mixer so i suppose its just up to us to make sure we dont increase the EQ levels to a point where distortion will occur if you maximise the playlist volume, and always test your output with both song and playlist at maximum is still clean especially if you have EQ adding gain as well, i dont think the master EQ volume reduction will work as i think the distortion is probably caused before this stage, but i will test this out as i would really like to know how much headroom is available in all the stages so i dont end up with this unpredictable problem, as a sound engineer i always like to run all stages cofourtably and use the mixer to drive the speaker amps.
But my one man band setup is slightly different as i use the ipad straight in to an aux input of a Lexicon Electric guitar foot pedal which has a guitar input and a microphone input with harmoniser capability sensing my guitar input for harmony and if there is no guitar input it senses the aux ST3 input to create harmony to my voice using my voice as a sample this all is mixed within the foot pedal and inputed directly to my yamaha/JBL pa system.
So may main sound level manipulation of balancing the backing to my mic level is done on the ipad ST3, this is than crucial to me if i increase Song or Playlist it does not distort, my only other option is to use the Lexicon mixing faders which are on the floor and very fiddly to use, absolutely not practical while performing.
I have a remote on my guitar where i can manipulate ST3 volume but it is useless if i end up in distortion.
So my lesson from last gig is always check your mixes between songs with Song and playlist volumes at maximum and when finished bring them both back to zero for the gigs this will guarantee clean sound but dont then tweak your EQs by increasing gain as this might be enough to bring you in to distortion again especially if you have already increased your Song/playlist volumes.
SO THE BIG LESSON IS RUN YOUR LEVELS WISELY AND KEEP CHECKING YOUR NEW SONG LEVELS TO A REFERENCE SONG YOU ALWAYS USE AND KNOW TO BE WORKING FOR YOU.
I actually have a DRUMS track i always use as my reference to setup my PA system, as the drums have the full frequency range of instruments, once you have them sounding how you know they should sound you can be pretty sure all other sound sources will sound as expected.
This is not so intrusive to others in the room and is a great quick way to setup.
Tweaking levels and tone, when adding new songs you always need to firstly go to a reference track play this track and listen to it for a while then play the new song and create the same sound level and tone to the referance song, i usually do a number of new songs at a time so my reference point doasnt change as sometimes i use headphones and other time i use the actual PA i use to perform, they both sound different to mix on but if you always use the same reference track you will be able to keep all your tracks well mixed and sounding.
If you dont do this and you have lots of songs, you will end up with a dogs breakfast and very stressful performance and possibly turn in to an alchoholic.
These are just some very basic tips to those that are just starting and suck eggs information to the pros out there.
So Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all you ST3 users.

JonathanS

peter with regard to master volume, I am able to connect my iPad via Bluetooth directly to my PA. My question is this: does the volume control in ST3 only work within Stage Traxx and leave the iPad volume untouched or does it control the master volume of the iPad overall (I may not have said that correctly)? For example, if I turn the volume completely down to nothing within Stage Traxx will the volume continue to be set to zero if I subsequently close ST?
I tried the Bluetooth link once but I found the iPad volume buttons were not delicate enough so haven’t used Bluetooth since. I’ve continued to use a lightning audio out, via a camera connector adapter to also keep the iPad charged, to the mixer.

davedroug

edit all your files mp3 ,wave etc or what ever your using to -3db then you have headroom to work with i've never need to touch mine when playing once set on the mixer and i eq my files in audcity then set the output to -3 then save them ,never ever had any files peak out while playing

Damir

JonathanS Hi Jonathan, i happened to read your question while i was doing other tests and have done a test for you and can confirm yes ST3 master volume is the actual Master volume of the ipad so if you drop the volume to zero on st3 then exit it and open up another app and play sound you wont hear anything untill you turn up the ipads master volume on the actual ipads buttons.
I think i just realized your problem.
You are using the ipad physical buttons to control volume, and yes they make big jumps in volume and dont give you a lot of fine adjustment, but in ST3 Settings master volume slider is a really big smooth slider that gives you good fine control of volume which is exactly the same control as the ipads physical buttons so you could use that to fine tune your master volume.
Cheers Damir

peter

Damir is right. The master volume slider in the Stage Traxx settings controls your iPad hardware volume or the hardware volume of your bluetooth device. All other volume sliders in the app change the volume of the audio stream.

My recommendation is to follow the usual gain staging advise. So make sure the iPad hardware volume is as loud as possible so that you get the best signal to noise ration into your mixer. Use the song volume to make sure all your songs have the same loudness. Use the playlist / queue volume to cater for background or party music. And take care when boosting volume above +0dB. There is a 6dB safety buffer in the app but boosting song volume to +4 and playlist volume also to +4 will get you into terrain that can lead to distorted sound.