The new st4 updates

Kevtyler

Hi guys

I’m trying to figure out what has changed with relation to the highlighted text below,

I don’t use queue, but find that changes in the clients playlist reflect on the host but not the other way around currently
Thanks

peter

Please describe in detail what exactly does not work. I need step by step instructions on how to replicate it.

Kevtyler

Hi Peter

I have not installed this update yet, I’m asking what changes am I going to see as I don’t exactly know what the changes I’ve outlined actually do.

I’m going to presume playback mode is normal or repeat or auto start, not sure. But it’s “the network clients no longer process “ that I’m wondering about.

Thanks

peter

Those changes address these issue:

Kevtyler

Thanks Peter

It’s nothing for me to worry about.

Many thanks

Kevtyler

Just by the way, I’m still curious regarding host and client using playlists (not queue ) of how changing the order of songs on the client reflects instantly on the host, but it doesn’t act the same when done from the host. What I mean is that if I change a few songs, my partner has to press the folder/ full lyric icon and return to see my changes. Do you think st4 might change in future so changes in running order are reflected on hosts and clients, without refreshing in the manner I suggest?

Cheers

peter

A client does not have a full database copy from the server and pulls playlist data actively when it opens a playlist. The host does not know which client is currently viewing a playlist. Therefore changes to a playlist are not actively sent. But any change to a playlist with automatic queue handling updates the queue and that is always transmitted to the client.

So if a client only needs to view the upcoming songs, just watch the queue.

Kevtyler

Hi Peter, I’m sorry but for the reasons I have mentioned, I do not use Queue. I use playlists.

So I have a playlist for my duo, my guitarist is the client and I am the host. So I could say, “ thanks folks we are going to do 2 songs and take a break” If my partner moves a couple of songs closer to the now playing song or non playing selected song while I’m talking, I see instantly on the host that he has changed the order, and I will announce the 2 songs he has chosen, Now if I say “2 songs and a break” , and I rearrange the order, my partner doesn’t see the list has changed unless he presses the folder icon twice, so I have to walk over to him and say “ push that button twice” I know you don’t work this way Peter but many of us do, and I think it would be nice if my mate knew I have changed the order without having to walk over and tell him.
I hope I’m explaining this correctly.

Thanks

Kev

peter

Kevtyler Everyone uses the queue. It is the heart of playback management in Stage Traxx. The queue manages all upcoming songs. Whether you let ST4 handle it or manage it manually does not matter.

If you want to see what's being played next, open the queue view.

AnthonyB

@Kevtyler what you are describing is understood. @peter replies confirms (to me at least) that he understands, but is also providing an alternative that meets your primary need (client to see dynamically updated list of upcoming songs).

Updates to Playlists are not dynamically/automatically pushed from the Host to the Client. That was your original observation/issue and Peter has confirmed that that behaviour is expected (though in your case, not desired).

Peter is saying that in the current version, if you want to see a dynamic and always up to date list of songs on a Client, then the Queue provides exactly that. Now before you say (again) that you don't use the Queue, just for a moment put all pre-conceived bias against the Queue aside and stop and consider whether your partner could be looking at the Queue if all they need to do is know the current song, and what is coming up, based on tweaks/changes you are making.

Now there might be other things your partner needs that a Playlist view provides and the Queue view does not provide. If so, then these are all input for a Feature Request.

Back to what you are asking for, if you would like to raise a Feature Request for Playlists to be dynamically updated on Clients to reflect changes made on Hosts, then create a new post for that purpose so that it can be discussed and Peter can decide whether it is something he considers. Use this post as a guide for how to write a more effective Feature Request (https://support.stagetraxx.com/d/4778-how-to-write-a-good-forum-post)

Kevtyler

Hi guys hi Peter hi Anthony,

Thanks for your responses, yes I know how to make a request Anthony, normally I ask Peter first if it’s something he would consider,. I asked a question, could the actions of host to client mirror those of client to host in the future and here we are, back in queue. I find it odd that a client can edit the hosts playlists yet changes made by the host go unseen until you push the folder icon twice?. I recently started a post on here “playlist vs queue “ and apart from Peter nobody admitted to actually using queue I think. You and I Anthony, jay Traxx Damir all said we don’t use queue for whatever reasons. We all work in different ways and as you know even genuine attempts to offer a workaround are met in less than friendly manner.

Good morning Peter

I have waited a while to respond because once again I’ve spent some time trying to figure out, am I missing something with queue vs playlist. Ok then, so I’ve tried it again, and not being able to play a song without bringing it to the top of the list is so unnatural to me. My list has a lot of interval songs at the top then my 3 by 1 hour sets. So if I’m in queue mode, and I want to play a song from the final set as my first song, I scroll down and double click it and it jumps to the top, now then, my next song is going to be a mastermix 45 minute song, I then have to scroll down to my first set select my first song and it jumps to the top, and now I realise that I should have put them mastermixes on the bottom of the list😂😂😂. I have to be honest, there was a time I wanted played songs to vanish and I love that queue removes the played songs and love that changes on host or client instantly refresh the queue, I am just so conditioned to playlist mode, where you might have a group of country songs at the bottom of your list and decide you will play a few, so you scroll down and select play and you know your next song is a country song, not whatever the 1st unplayed song would be, it’s just a no brainer for me, this is how many of us work.

Peter I like everyone on here appreciate everything you do and wonder how you put up with us, I’m going to give queue a go at a gig and see how I get on with it. EDIT I have a feeling after a bit of messing about, you might have a convert. Holy cow.

Many thanks

Kev

royandreno

If it wasn’t for the loading of 32 songs, I would use the Queue function. And also that when I’m in queue I can play any song with a single tap, just like in the songlist. Why having to bring it to the top? I just need the queue folder to be songs that I add at random during the gig, or during brakes.
Until this is available, I’m just sticking to the songlist.
I have tried using it, but it was too cumbersome.
As of now, queue is not user friendly to me. I think that is why hardly anyone uses the function.

Kevtyler

Hi Roy and Reno

I shared your feelings….untill ….i enabled queue and turned automatic queue handling off.

You have to totally rethink the way you work, as I said I’m a one playlist type of guy, interval first, then a set, then an interval then a set, then an interval…you have to abandon this way of working. You start with an empty queue and accept that you have to really think about the way you add stuff to the queue, so today, I deleted all off my interval from my 3 sets, invoked queue mode, so added a set of interval first, then added my physical acts ( I might have that back to front ) but once you understand where songs go it becomes viable to consider queue. Ok so today I was effing and blinding, I added 130 songs to the queue , then tapped once on a playlist of 13 songs and the queue now had 13 songs……wtf?.? Then I turned off automatic queue handling and the penny dropped. You load your interval and your main act, get the order right…then a double tap inside a playlist sends just one song to the bottom of the queue list, whereas a long press gives you the option to push that particular song to the top. And when in queue view, you want to change the order, you can if you drag, but you can just double tap and send a couple of tunes to the top…

I’m a bit out of sorts with how many interval songs I should cue in the break as if you don’t play them and let them vanish post play, they are there in the top of the list and in the way…. I’m going to suggest that in the fight between playlist and queue, instant refresh of edification etc, played songs vanish…queue might be the way to go.

Good luck

MusicMan81

Kevtyler Ok so here’s what I have learned using the Queue.

TBH, after spending a bit of time with it, is fairly easy to understand.

Auto queue OFF. - You open a setlist with 200 songs, and you must double click to add songs to the cue. Fairly easy, the Queue is Blank and goes one by one, this scenario is good for people who goes with the audience mood, either by adding 2-3 songs and so on, or maybe a band with 2-3 singers, they can be adding the songs on the fly depending on what they feel will connect with the audience while the other singer is doing their song.

Auto Queue ON. - Here is where I think many people is confusing things, and I’m gonna try to explain what I “think” it is.

The Auto Queue is just a plain Mirror Copy of the selected playlist! With added features.

IF you open a setlist with 20 songs, then you open the queue, you will have those exact 20 songs in the queue in the exact same order, if you select a playlist with 200 songs, the same happens, the queue has 200 songs.

What are those added features? Is the SAME playlist, but you can EDIT that playlist NON destructive, let me explain.

Let’s asume you open a setlist with 20 songs. One you open the setlist, the song you have selected will be the First song in the queue and the rest will follow, if you select the song #08, the the playlist will appear like this..

8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-01-02-03-04-05-06-07.

It starts with the song selected and after the last song in the setlist is added, it will add the songs that are before the one you selected, like a circle per se…. If you go back, and select songs.15. The same will happen. You can just go back to the playlist, and reselect another song, and the queue will auto update with the same order…. Also you can double tap any song and add it to play next, it moves it right after the currently playing song but keeps the remaining order, just remember to turn off the “Tap to add on top”…. Also, is non destructive, you can simply go back to playlist and select another song or the same, and you will get the queue back to when you started…

So, if you have for example…. 3 sets of 15 songs, you can easily build the 3 sets, add a break in between them, and in the end, add around 25 “spare songs” just in case, or the entire repertoire if you feel like it., is up to you.

So once you open that setlist, simply touch the first song of the 1st set and the queue will be ready to go. After you finish, then go back, and select the first song of the second set and the show will start there, you can also keep the previous queue and keep playing set after set…. And you still have the spare songs that you can double click and bring to the mix..

Is not bad as you might think, once you get use to it, is basically the same playlist on steroids, and if you don’t like it just keep the playlist.

@peter I don’t know if this was the correct t way to explain it, but this is what I have understood so far using the queue.

peter

MusicMan81 Very good explanation indeed. Thanks for that!

royandreno

MusicMan81 TBH, after spending a bit of time with it, is fairly easy to understand.

Believe me, I tried using the queue for some gigs, but I stand with my comment above.
It should be more user friendly, a folder where you load songs, and as they are played, they disappear. Load them top or bottom, I don’t mind, but one tap on a song anywhere in the folder should be enough to get it ready for playing, just like in the main songlist.
And get away with the 32 loading. So easy to mess up.

Btw… The fact that you have to use a whole page to describe how to use it says it all😃

Kevtyler

I think you describe it pretty well mate, I was in to my 2nd bottle of wine when I got to Reno’s post. I was drowning my sorrows as for the first time in 60 odd years, I might have been wrong about something. 😉

The only thing I’m thinking about still, is should I import playlists with interval every hour or not. Because unplayed interval songs and unplayed performance songs end up at the top of your list and need to be discarded or sent south. I reckon like anything I will get used to it, I think with relation to number of swipes and button pushes it’s “6 of 1 and half a dozen of another” both ways of working have their merits, but I’m going to argue that for the likes of Damir with 500 songs in his list, having songs vanish after they finish would be a huge advantage on his 4 or 5 hour gigs??

I’m gonna give queue a go, I’m pretty certain to be honest it will be painless. I recall a few years back when I was much busier, doing 26 gigs a month there were horrible moments on stage when I announced a song and worried have I done this in the first set.? Unlike st4, my software then had no history, colours for played songs, or remove played songs..

I think Peter has thought of everything a muso needs, and I must thank him sincerely for his hard work.

Cheers

Kev

MusicMan81

Kevtyler there’s an issue with the skip played songs. Let me edit this msg

I think I found a bug that might be adding to the confusion for everyone.

If you select the function “skip played songs”. It works ok, every time you play a song it will be erased from the cue of the selected playlist.

The issue is that it must be allowed to reset whe you exit that playlist, the program remembers the skipped played songs..

So if you do a sound check you CANNOT use the same playlist you will use at night, because it will recognize the songs you use in the souncheck as “played songs” and won’t be showed in the queue…. So when you have that option selected, the queue shows a totally different order…. Even if you change playlist and go back to the “tonight’s show” playlist…. There still songs missing.. even closing the app and restarting, it never forgets lol….

You must allow reset when changing playlist so if you go back to X playlist, starts from scratch.

Or the solution is, every time you have a gig, you need to create a Soundcheck playlist so you can do the sound check and it doesn’t mess up either the show that you will be playing

Kevtyler

Hi Music man, thanks for that, as a rule I do an erase played songs from history after sound check, as I have a few 5 second songs that select faders up and down on my digital desk so I know that the midi from st4 to desk is active prior to starting my show, so I need these right before I go on, and I don’t want them to be missing. So thanks for the heads up on that.

My confusion with queue all comes from the fact that I’ve never used it or wanted to use it before, I found the settings surrounding “enable auto queue handling “ and “ show queue” odd at first. Not being able to select a song and play it without double clicking was alien, but I realise that most of the time I start my show with the same 3 songs, yap a bit, then wing it, but having disappearing songs outweighs most advantages of jumping between playlists in non queue mode. I’m very surprised to be honest that after all the pro playlist banter from me, my conversion to queue mode has been rapid, and I’m going to urge everyone to at least try it. As I said you have to think about how you are going to load play lists in to the queue ( because of unplayed songs ending up as next ) but I’m looking forward to gigging in queue mode next week.

Cheers

MusicMan81

royandreno I just tried to be as clear as possible and offer examples.

Sorry if it was too much for you, clearly you’re smarter than the rest of us…

Kevtyler

Roy and Reno,

I don’t think you are following us, if you are clicking on something and getting 32 songs when you only want one, you have the wrong settings, turn off AUTO QUEUE…and you will find it attractive …you load a playlist, if you want to play the last 2 songs in that list next you double tap, they vanish when they are finished, if you go to a new playlist and double tap on one of its songs, only that song goes in to the queue..

Try it out

😀

royandreno

Kevtyler I don’t think you are following us, if you are clicking on something and getting 32 songs when you only want one, you have the wrong settings, turn off AUTO QUEUE…

I know this, but why load 32 songs in Auto Queue? Doesn’t make sence.

And what is the point in double tapping songs to the top, when it would be enough with my proposed single tap anywhere to load it to the player? Much more user friendly.

Imo, Manual Queue should work like this. A single tap in songlist loads it to the top in the queue folder.
(Keep the slide option if you want it at the bottom)
And once in the folder, everything should be a one tap operation. Period. No matter whether it is song number 10 or number 1, It should load in the player immediately.