MIDI timeline display

bnyrj

Hi Mark,

I’m new to Stage Traxx and was simply sharing a feature request I’d personally like to see. This thread was created by Peter to understand who supports the idea, so I’d prefer to keep the discussion focused on that.

I’m not against any features you or others may request — everyone has different needs and workflows.

Ultimately, it’s Peter who decides what’s right for the app.

For me, I see Stage Traxx primarily as a track player. Everything beyond that feels like a bonus. I haven’t come across another app that is as stable and reliable for this purpose. I do all my editing in a DAW and bring fully prepared tracks into Stage Traxx. So my priority is simply a stable setup to play audio and MIDI tracks with solid control over regions, sessions, bars, and playback.

MarkGuitar

bnyrj so I’d prefer to keep the discussion focused on that.

My suggestions were aimed at what you requested. In my post above I suggested a way of visualising things (which is what you asked for) simply to make it easier to use. And allow the possibility in the future (should there be demand and @peter agreed) of adding easier MIDI editing capabilities.

bnyrj For me, I see Stage Traxx primarily as a track player.

I dont. And there is the issue. We all have different needs. I never claim that what a user wants should not be implemented. There are things in ST that others have pressed hard for that drive me nuts. IE Looping. For me a complete white elephant that only causes me grief when I accidentally tap on a region and make it loop. But others love it and I get that. I have never said 'I dont believe ST should do looping'.

ST needs to be lots of different things to lots of different users. We all need to be aware of their needs, even if we dont need or agree with them.

bnyrj

Hi Mark,

Here or in any app-related forum, I usually take things lightly.

Users have different requirements, and I completely understand that. Stage Traxx works well for me, even though there are many features I’m either not aware of or don’t use.

For me, the top priority is always stability and reliability. If any feature request risks affecting that, I would prefer not to have it. There’s no point in having many features if the app becomes unstable or unreliable.

That’s why I prefer to leave the final decision to the developer, who understands the app inside out and sees things we don’t.

We can share ideas and suggestions, and then wait for the developer’s take on it. The fact that Peter created this post itself makes me feel it’s a possibility — otherwise, he usually says clearly if something isn’t feasible

Damir

MarkGuitar So what would you call the current MIDI editing features?
I am not suggesting any feature that isn't already there, just that the functionality to use it be made easier.

I am constantly staggered by the attitude of people on this forum who seem hell-bent on limiting the app to what they want it to be.

As I said before , I would use midi for simple commands if it was easier to use , but can it be made to do it easier? Or will something extra be added to bloat the software more and sill not make the difference to attract simple users.
Lets see where it goes . Come on midi users give more suggestions!
For me, it needs to be easy to program and easy to manipulate on ST itself otherwise it’s not practical if I need to involve a daw.
But that’s me.

MarkGuitar

Damir

Damir it’s not practical if I need to involve a daw.

That's what I am trying to suggest here. The more 'round trips' we need to make with external apps, the longer and more error-prone the process becomes. Especially when a user (like me) is migrating their operation from a playback platform like Ableton. I still have hundreds of songs to move over and the gigs dont stop whilst I do that.

My suggestion of flags would seem to be super simple and intuitive. Yamaha/Line 6 have managed to implement it on the new Helix Stadium (an amazing pedal BTW) with only a 7 inch touch screen. Ans it works amazingly well. And I would think Yamaha know a thing or two about how to design a UI.

Damir but can it be made to do it easier?

Well lets be truthful here, as much as I love what @Peter has achieved with ST, typing in MIDI commands by hand and putting in times as MM:SS:mmm is a real PITA. There HAS to be a better way. And as @bnyrj is saying, maybe make it a visual read-only thing to start with, let it settle down and work well. Then later add the facility to add markers (flags) and edit them. Hopefully that will allay any fears that the app has too many features....

In the end, it is down to what @Peter thinks will work and what he can achieve with the time he has. We can only suggest and discus.

jaytrax

The midi functionality available in the timestamp area of the lyrics tab should be used for approximate and in app midi commands

If you want precision based and done on a timeline then this should be done as part of your stereo track or multitrack editing in your DAW
Exported as a midi file and then you have precision based midi commands everytime

My DMX midi clips for lighting is done in the DAW
Drag and drop the midi clip
Export as midi file

Done

Guitar FX same way but sometimes I’ll do that in the lyrics tab manually time stamping changes

Reverb and delay times from wing are set also on playback

Stage Traxx is primarily a playback device
Not a complete DAW,
To minimise issues and complexity it should be treated that way

If your needs are met with Stage Traxx - Great

If you are more in depth with editing, programming, specific exports, then you should become proficient with a DAW of your choice

bnyrj

jaytrax

There are a lot of different points being discussed in this thread, but Peter originally asked for feedback on a specific idea I had requested.

To clarify my request: it is only about having a MIDI track view, similar to how audio tracks are shown—so MIDI can be visible in the timeline and we can assign/adjust regions against it like any other stem.

I completely agree with you that MIDI editing and precise programming should remain in a DAW. I also use Stage Traxx purely as a playback tool.

So the idea is not about adding MIDI editing or DAW-style features, but simply making existing MIDI data visible in the same way as audio, for better playback awareness and region handling.

MarkGuitar

jaytrax Stage Traxx is primarily a playback device

So what do you call the existing editing capabilities for midi, lyrics, regions, pitch, tempo etc etc.

jaytrax this should be done as part of your stereo track or multitrack editing in your DAW

Why?

You then cannot see where things are in ST (as per the comments by @bnyrj ). The events are in a ‘sealed midi file that is not visible in ST at all.
Any changes required involve further round trips to the DAW

jaytrax you should become proficient with a DAW of your choice

Quite apart from the fact that it is not for you to say what I should be proficient in, I am in fact very proficient in the use of Ableton. Which if you know Ableton you will know that it is not capable of exporting a type 0 midi file from multiple mid tracks within Ableton. And as ST only has one midi file slot available, multiple type 1 midi files is not an option either. So a non-starter anyway. Plus numerous other limitations with exporting midi.

jaytrax No consistent bar/beat structure unless authored properly

Not relevant or required. A time based system as we already have would be perfectly adequate. We are quite aware that ST does not have or work with a Beat/Bar system. Existing midi commands are time based and there is no reason why a visualisation of those commands could not be the same. I don’t think anybody is asking for beat accurate midi editing, just a visualisation of the existing manually entered/edited commands. (Yes ST does do editing as well as playback)

jaytrax MIDI = triggered events tied to that timeline

But they are not are they? Midi events are a totally separate list of manually entered commands with their own timing entered. They are not represented on the timeline, there is no way to see where they appear on the timeline and they are not linked to the timeline. If I adjust the position of the region that is a guitar solo, the midi event that changes my guitar patch doesn’t move. They are not in anyway tied to the timeline. And they not visible within anything relating to the audio. They are a completely separate list of commands that occur within their own time space. Midi commands in the lyrics sheet don’t even check if their time definition is within the available time of the audio. I can have a 3 minute song and enter a midi command to fire at 5 minutes.
Again, I am not saying we should have full midi editing on the audio waveform (yet at least) but it sure would help to see where they occur on the audio waveform/timeline.

Again, I fail to understand why any user of ST (or any other software for that matter) would suggest that restricting the functionality of the app is the right thing to do because they wouldn’t use that functionality. Even if others would. Why can’t people accept we all have different uses of an app like ST and just not use the bits they don’t need?

Damir

jaytrax If you want precision based and done on a timeline then this should be done as part of your stereo track or multitrack editing in your DAW
Exported as a midi file and then you have precision based midi commands everytime

In my case its not the precision thats the problem its the awkward way to enter commands that stops me from using automated switching of external devices.
I think if this process is simplified more people would use it.
I have made an of the top of my head suggestion that might work better in this post , if entering and controlling midi commands was easier on ST itself more people would use it, not just the midi experts.
Most musicians have no idea what midi is or does, i do and i still don't see the value of number crunching my brain and wasting a lot more time to give me something the audience could not give a toss about.
But if it was practical, well thats another story.
I see midi as a conduit to achieve something , it should be simple at one end to achieve a simple task at the other end.
Whats in between i don't need to know about as i am a musician first not a number cruncher.

bnyrj

Something like this….😃

jaytrax

So you just want to move the add/remove midi file from the details tab to its own midi tab as above ?

bnyrj

And the midi file to be seen as a track in the time line to set regions based on that

jaytrax

Realistically MIDI doesn’t reliably contain enough context on its own in this use case:

No guaranteed tempo map handling across all files
No consistent bar/beat structure unless authored properly
No audio reference for drift or human timing

That’s exactly why most people doing tight MIDI/light show work (myself included) prep timing in a DAW and then export or trigger from there.

Let’s take tempo as an example with a variable tempo from a purchased Karaoke-Version track/multitrack

If you are trying to segment this whether for regions or midi the most precise way is to use hh:mm:ss.ms
So again this would lend itself to checking this in the DAW (assuming you’ve warped or synced your project to the grid)
otherwise it’s approximation which is what the lyrics tab timestamp does

So the current design actually makes sense:

Audio = master timeline
MIDI = triggered events tied to that timeline
Regions = dependent on a known playback reference

bnyrj

I dont know the technical side
This what i mean to see the midi track

This is how bandlab shows the midi track

If Stage Traxx can display the midi like this we can set regions based on the beat grid

Damir

bnyrj I dont know the technical side
This what i mean to see the midi track

This is how bandlab shows the midi track

If Stage Traxx can display the midi like this we can set regions based on the beat grid

Your example is pointless, you have a full on midi file shown that is so busy it’s got no visual value.
Yes I understand having a nice visual to see occasional commands to change things would be helpful so you can then shift this command easily in the timeline but I see no value using a song midi file to show you this as the midi file can’t be synced up to your audio backing track properly so it’s pointless , ST is an audio player first and has midi capability to trigger devices, yes in that case a very simple view to see the trigger points would be handy while editing in prep mode but on stage don’t you want to see the lyrics screen and the audio segments as priority , why would you need to see your midi commands , they are done in prep.
I think we are all looking at this from different angles .
What we all need to understand firstly how does it help us on stage, if it has no value there , what value has it got in preparation?
For me there’s no value on stage
In prep yes I see it being user friendly to see clearly where you have placed your commands and to be able to edit them easily by dragging them around the time needed to trigger them and an easy way to enter them in to the view , by programming the change needed hittting a plus to add this new trigger and simply dragging it in a timeline to place it , selecting it to delete it etc very simple to create your switching needs and very simple way to then implement them on screen just like editing audio segments.
And while your lyrics are scrolling as you perform the midi command that’s named pops up on the screen somewhere to indicate to you that you are about to get a distortion effect on your guitar or your reverb on your vocals is about to be muted.
Now that’s how I see midi , very roughly as an idea.
How you guys see it might be different and that fine, that’s why sometimes things need to be discussed in a wider context in a proposal as it might create something even more useful then initial idea.
No harm in discussion.

MarkGuitar

Damir Your example is pointless, you have a full on midi file shown that is so busy it’s got no visual value.

It doesn't happen often 🙂 🙂 🙂 but I agree with @Damir 🙂

Your idea of being able to visualise the midi events against the audio to check what you have entered is a good one, I upvoted and support it. But simply showing a lane of dark blobs on a coloured background doesn't help at all. From that, there is no way to tell what any of those midi events are for.
If you are going to visualise something you have to know what you are looking at.

MarkGuitar

Damir For me there’s no value on stage

Correct, but I spend WAAAAAAY more timing preparing stuff in ST than I do on stage. I did a 2 hour gig with ST on Saturday (It performed flawlessly BTW, thank you @Peter).
But had spent untold hours the week before preparing the songs, lyrics and MIDI for that gig.

For me, every minute I can save in the preparation of a gig is a minute I can spend practicing my performance; a way more interesting and important thing to spend time on. All this bouncing back and forth between apps to do stuff that ST is not good at or doesn't do at all is a huge time suck.

Im not knocking ST at all. It's early days with ST4 and it is very good at what it does do. But gig preparation is the big thief of time and if that can be improved, what's not to like?

So for all those who keep saying 'ST is a playback device'. Well yes, when you get it on stage and actually do a 'playback' . To get to that point there is a shed load of preparation to be done sat in front of the ST screen. The more I can reduce that preparation time, the better my perfroamcne can be on the night.

Damir

Here’s another suggestion,
We get another option in SONG DETAILS called MIDI.
In that mode it’s similar to Audio segments but the difference is you can create all the commands you need and label them by name , so you don’t need to repeat creating the same commands over and over and all new songs can use these commands.
Now you get a dim background of your audio segmenting so you can easily see your song structure so now you hit + to add a command , a pop up box with all your commands appears you choose the command you need and it gets placed in the playhead indicator location, if you are zoomed out it just indicates simply you have a midi command in that place but once you zoom in at the point you have sufficient space it shows you the full name of that command , this creates a very easy fast way to edit this command , if you point and grab the command you can drag it around if you long press on it you can delete it replace it copy it and paste it , this allows quick method of manipulating this command . All the commands can be visually displayed on lyrics screen as an option.
I have just started this idea and have to go , so if you think this is something that might work keep on massaging the idea .
Cheers

MarkGuitar

Damir

This is pretty much how the Helix approach (which I dared to mention earlier in the thread) works.
But in addition I really like your idea of having a library of saved commands that we can re use. BandHelper does this and it is a real time saver.
I kinda simulate this idea t the moment by having commands in a Notes document that I cut and past, but of course when I paste them in the time portion is wrong so its clunky at best.

bnyrj

Hi,
Just to clearly summarise the request:

What is being asked for:
• A simple MIDI timeline display, similar to an audio track
• MIDI shown visually in the timeline (bar/beat grid or time-based)
• Ability to set and adjust regions using the MIDI track as reference
• MIDI treated like a visible “lane” or “stem” for playback alignment

What is NOT being asked for:
• No MIDI editing (no note editing, CC editing, etc.)
• No DAW-style piano roll or arrange view
• No advanced MIDI programming features
• No change to Stage Traxx’s core role as a playback tool

Why this is being asked:
• MIDI already plays correctly and follows regions — but it is not visible
• Regions currently require an audio reference, which limits MIDI-only workflows
• Lack of visibility makes timing and alignment harder
• This is about improving usability of an existing feature, not adding complexity

Use cases:
• Visually setting song sections (intro, verse, chorus, bridge) in MIDI-based setups
• Using Stage Traxx as a touchscreen controller for external keyboards and devices
• More accurate region triggering based on MIDI timing instead of estimating from audio
• Managing medleys and jumping between sections within a single MIDI file
• Controlling arranger/workstation keyboards (Yamaha, Korg, etc.) during live performance
• Storing and recalling chord progressions externally for older keyboards
• Avoiding the need to load dummy audio files just to enable regions

This keeps Stage Traxx simple and focused, while making existing MIDI functionality much more practical to use.

Thanks for considering.

Damir

bnyrj Use cases:
• Visually setting song sections (intro, verse, chorus, bridge) in MIDI-based setups
• Using Stage Traxx as a touchscreen controller for external keyboards and devices
• More accurate region triggering based on MIDI timing instead of estimating from audio
• Managing medleys and jumping between sections within a single MIDI file
• Controlling arranger/workstation keyboards (Yamaha, Korg, etc.) during live performance
• Storing and recalling chord progressions externally for older keyboards
• Avoiding the need to load dummy audio files just to enable regions

This keeps Stage Traxx simple and focused, while making existing MIDI functionality much more practical to use.

I am sorry but your midi requests are numerous , to do all these things are totally changing ST to midi based software, I don’t think you are aware of what you are asking for, and how technically is going to be changing the software that is mainly audio based. As is, midi is a side bonus for simple automated control of external devices.

bnyrj

Damir

Hi Damir,

I think there’s a small misunderstanding here.

What you’ve quoted under “use cases” are results of the request, not the request itself.

The actual request is very simple:
→ A visualisation of the MIDI track on the timeline, so regions can be set based on the MIDI timeline (just like we currently do with audio).

That’s all.

There is no request to add new MIDI capabilities or turn Stage Traxx into MIDI-based software.

MIDI already:
• Plays correctly
• Follows regions

The only limitation is that it is not visible.

So this is not about changing how Stage Traxx works —
it’s only about making an existing function visible and easier to use.

The use cases I listed are simply what becomes possible after that visibility is available — not additional features being requested.

So the scope remains very small and fully aligned with Stage Traxx as a playback tool.

Hope that clarifies 👍

Damir

👍

Lishy

Damir what’s difficult about it? By using midi learn it’s 2 button presses.

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