MIDI timeline display

bnyrj

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the clarification — that makes sense regarding Timecode Offset and region behavior.

I wanted to share a feature idea that could improve MIDI handling in Stage Traxx.

At the moment, MIDI cannot be visualized on a timeline, and regions require an audio file to function. This makes MIDI-only workflows a bit limited, especially when audio is not part of the setup.

It would be very useful if Stage Traxx could load MIDI in a similar way to audio — not as a DAW editing tool, but as a simple visual timeline or stem-style lane. Since MIDI already contains timing information, it could perfectly display a beat/grid view for alignment.

For example:

MIDI shown as a basic bar/track timeline with beat grid
Ability to set and trigger regions directly from MIDI positions
No requirement to attach an audio file just to enable regions
MIDI used only for playback reference and alignment

This would make MIDI-based workflows much more flexible for live performance and external instrument control.

Just wanted to share this as a possible improvement idea. Overall, Stage Traxx already handles MIDI integration quite well.

Thanks again for your support.

peter

I have moved it to feature requests so that it can be upvoted. But this would be a huge effort to build. In my opinion there are more pressing matters to address before this feature.

bnyrj

Damir

Me too know that. Peter already said that clearly:

peter I have moved it to feature requests so that it can be upvoted. But this would be a huge effort to build. In my opinion there are more pressing matters to address before this feature

So I’m not desperate for this feature or demanding it immediately. I mainly wanted to know what other users think about the idea. But the discussion got mixed again with MIDI/audio sync and other concepts.

I also understand that the ST user base is mainly audio-track focused, and MIDI support in ST is currently more for control purposes.

This idea only came to my mind because I noticed ST was already handling the MIDI file I loaded very smoothly together with the region jumps. Since the MIDI playback worked nicely through my Korg Pa900, I thought it would be useful if the MIDI track itself could simply be displayed in the timeline so regions could be set directly from that, even without an associated audio file.

Anyway, if Peter can someday include something like this without affecting the stability and reliability of the app, that would be great. Otherwise, as he already mentioned, there are many higher-priority feature requests to consider first.

But I do think that if implemented properly, there would be arranger keyboard users and MIDI-track performers who would make good use of it — they just may not be active in this forum.

bnyrj

Thanks for considering this and opening a separate thread for voting.

This feature could attract a new group of users—especially those who work heavily with MIDI tracks, such as arranger and workstation keyboard players.

The request is not for MIDI editing, but simply a visual MIDI timeline (like an audio track) with a beat grid, so regions can be set accurately without needing an audio file.

Use cases:
• Turning Stage Traxx into a touchscreen controller for hardware keyboards, allowing visual navigation and jumping between song sections
• More precise region triggering, since MIDI follows tempo and measures directly
• Storing and recalling chord progressions externally for arranger keyboards like Yamaha, Korg, etc. (especially useful for older models that cannot save them permanently), helping users continue using high-quality keyboards without needing to upgrade

This would expand the app’s use beyond audio workflows and bring in additional users.

bnyrj

Use cases that may help others see the value:

• Live performers using MIDI tracks can visually jump between song sections (intro, verse, chorus, bridge) with accuracy
• Arranger/workstation keyboard users can use Stage Traxx as a touchscreen controller for navigation and transport
• Precise region triggering based on bars and beats instead of estimating from audio waveforms
• No need to load dummy audio files just to create and manage regions
• Managing medleys and setlists by jumping between sections within a single MIDI file
• External control of styles and arrangements on hardware keyboards via MIDI
• Storing and recalling chord progressions externally for arranger keyboards (useful for older models that cannot save them permanently)
• Extending the life of older high-end keyboards by adding modern visual control and workflow
• Cleaner and more efficient setup for users who rely primarily on MIDI rather than audio

MarkGuitar

I would love for ST to have an easier to use way of handling midi events. We use midi extensively to control all our pedals, the mixer and lights. And to be frank, the time coded ‘hand written’ midi command is a PITA. It is the one thing I dislike about ST. (But there is also loads to really like! 🙂 j
I have just bought a Helix Stadium guitar pedal and that has an awesome way of dealing with midi by having flags that you can place on a song waveform loaded into the pedal. You literally play the song and drop flags (which are events) onto the waveform at the correct moment. It is genius and super fast and accurate. All on a 7 inch touch screen.
@peter I can send you info if interested.
I agree with @bnyrj,
Having midi control such as this could entice a whole new user base. And as ST already has the regions editor with a great zoomable waveform, maybe adding a midi event flag would be possible. Also, like the Helix, the events are not limited to only midi. Helix events include all sorts of things like turn on metronome, adjust tempo, pitch, skip to another flag, start a loop, end a loop etc etc.
Upvoted.

Damir

MarkGuitar Hi Mark, I know exactly what you are saying and totally agree and support you, but that’s why I went to ST in the first place , to get away from midi programming and to keep things simple , it seems like there are users here that can’t let go of midi ,
Yet my ST4 gives me crackling sound when using EQ and as I use the audio segment editor I still get weird undesirable things happening that I haven’t reported yet and don’t know how to tell Peter as it’s a rare problem.
There are still lots of issues I am discovering as I keep using ST4 which make me nervous to use on stage , I never felt that in ST2 or 3, I know people are using ST4 on stage and are loving it and that’s great I am about to use ST4 on my next gig , I will keep it simple to start with as I don’t know with my luck I always seem to find things others might never come across, but what I am pointing out is ST4 needs to be kept for simple AUDIO BACKING users, and yes I would like to see a side program like ST4 PRO for people that need all the extras designed in a way to make it a walk in the park to program lighting, effx processors, guitar amp automated control etc.
On song is a program that went too far for what I wanted years ago a simple ST2 was doing a great job , yes it could have been better but it was a choice I made because of its simplicity, ST3 came along with audio segmenting PERFECT , but still needed very little polish, ST4 is here with lots of settings to tweak and options to choose from , it’s starting to feel like the new operating systems available nowadays , so many choices that are confusing to majority yet the user can’t get a simple zoom in and out function working but he can get a number of complicated zooms that he has no use for.
I know I am going on and on but I am hoping to open up peoples eyes to stop over complicating the basic ST4.
The basics should always be in the back of peoples minds when considering functions.
I support you 100% with ST4 Pro.

bnyrj

MarkGuitar

Thanks for supporting and voting...

bnyrj

Damir but what I am pointing out is ST4 needs to be kept for simple AUDIO BACKING users, and yes I would like to see a side program like ST4 PRO for people that need all the extras designed in a way to make it a walk in the park to program lighting, effx processors, guitar amp automated control etc.

I think there’s a small misunderstanding here.

Right now in Stage Traxx 4:
• MIDI already plays correctly
• MIDI already follows regions
• But MIDI is invisible

So I’m not asking for a new capability — just visual feedback for something that already exists.

This isn’t about turning ST4 into a complex “Pro” system with lighting, FX, or deep MIDI editing.

MIDI playback already works perfectly in ST4 and follows regions as expected. The only thing missing is visibility — the MIDI track is essentially “blind” compared to audio.

What I’m suggesting is simply a timeline display for MIDI, similar to how audio waveforms are shown. No editing, no added complexity — just a visual reference.

This would:
• Make it easier to set and adjust regions
• Improve timing accuracy without needing a dummy audio file
• Keep the workflow fast and simple, especially for live use

All of these benefits happen outside of ST4 — this addition just enables them.

So this stays fully in line with ST4’s simplicity; it simply improves usability of something that already exists.

Please don’t overthink or complicate this with unrelated concerns.

Damir

bnyrj So I’m not asking for a new capability — just visual feedback for something that already exists.

This isn’t about turning ST4 into a complex “Pro” system with lighting, FX, or deep MIDI editing.

MIDI playback already works perfectly in ST4 and follows regions as expected. The only thing missing is visibility — the MIDI track is essentially “blind” compared to audio.

What I’m suggesting is simply a timeline display for MIDI, similar to how audio waveforms are shown. No editing, no added complexity — just a visual reference.

This would:
• Make it easier to set and adjust regions
• Improve timing accuracy without needing a dummy audio file
• Keep the workflow fast and simple, especially for live use

All of these benefits happen outside of ST4 — this addition just enables them.

So this stays fully in line with ST4’s simplicity; it simply improves usability of something that already exists.

Please don’t overthink or complicate this with unrelated concerns.

I understand , but to create something that seems simple might be very difficult to do , LOGIC PRO has done this but it’s not easy to use if you don’t fully understand the difference between Audio and MIDI, you can quickly get yourself in a knot, where the two go out of sync.
Yes if an audio track was easily synced up with midi, beat wise, so the two understood each other perfectly and you had a midi track that was simply editable so you can insert any commands simply and visually pleasing , I would possibly then start using midi as well, so I agree with your want, no problem there.
But introducing midi that’s half baked is not ideal.
I agree there should be a midi track , no midi commands should be present in the text editor and the two should be edited separately , just like audio segments , there could be a MIDI editor which is simple to see and create your commands of any kind.
I assume that’s what you are after, because as is, ST4 is not midi friendly yes it can do midi but only midi geniuses can use it.
Anyway I support you because I know your frustration.
How and when we get a better option is the question.
Good luck

Midimannz

bnyrj

There is such a program already, it’s similar to your needs

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/StageTraxx-Automatic-Midi-Commands-for-Lyric-Editor-Music-Lighting-set-lists-10609876?utm_campaign=post_purchase_confirmation_test&utm_content=01%2F11%2F2024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid

AnthonyB

This relates to a similar recent thread/feature request where I recall we discussed the concept of adding a "MIDI lane" type view under the audio regions. This could facilitate:

Seeing your MIDI events relative to the audio track waveform and regions (helps alignment of events)
Potentially being able to nudge/move timing of the MIDI events, again, because you can see them relative to the audio track waveform and regions

bnyrj

AnthonyB

Yes Anthony,
Peter opened this thread from the earlier discussion that led to the jump feature.

A MIDI lane view would provide much-needed visual feedback—helping users align MIDI events with audio waveforms and regions, and potentially fine-tune timing more precisely.

There are many practical live-use scenarios for this, especially for performers using keyboards and MIDI. It could also broaden Stage Traxx’s appeal beyond audio-only users and bring in a new group of performers.

MarkGuitar

Damir
I find it interesting how different users have different concepts of what is complicated. You are clearly concerned about the complexity of editing midi, which I find pretty straightforward. But you are obviously heavily into looping and using regions to control the flow of the music. To me that is a nightmare! I have no clue. The regions to me are just pretty colours on the waveform that give me an indication of where I am in the song 🙂
So we are all different. And for @peter it is a challenge keeping all users happy. But what it’s important is that the app covers the requirements of as many users as possible so that it is commercially viable for Peter to continue working on it and supporting our endeavours with his great program. I hear what yo say about simplicity but unfortunately, simple usually means limited appeal. And if Peter earns his living producing ST he needs to sell lots of licenses. It’s that simple. Keep on looping! 🙂

Damir

MarkGuitar I find it interesting how different users have different concepts of what is complicated. You are clearly concerned about the complexity of editing midi, which I find pretty straightforward.

Hi Mark, I used and relied heavily on midi way before audio backing was a thing and it was the best way at that time to achieve flexible arrangement of backing on the run even though the audio quality of sampled sounds was pretty average and real instruments sounded better.
After a number of high end arranger keyboards doing the heavy work which took a lot of midi editing , the keyboards themselves started having audio playback capability and even lyrics display, PERFECT , this opened up a whole new way of using backing except now I could not rearrange a song on the run or change pitch or tempo, so a few years later ST comes along , I decided to change to it for the reason I can have great live sounding instrument backing and synced lyrics and a very simple song choice on stage which made life much easier.
But I was missing live arrangement of backing , with Peter’s great wisdom and listening to what we needed he comes up with audio segmenting and tempo and pitch capability, this now has become my perfect tool .
No more midi requirement I’ve gone audio only.
But midi is still needed to simplify life for those on stage that want synced control of various devices, so now we have midi as well, I agree with this knowing how it makes life better for on stage performers, because of the poor way midi imputing not developed I don’t want to go backwards and waste my time with it for small reward.
I am in favour of it if it makes it real easy to setup and use, my expectations of midi are much greater now but it hasn’t developed in time.
I expect once I setup a particular command in ST4 to then have tis command presented to me where I can then simply put it anywhere in the song with ease , I need to easily be able to edit it afterwards and manipulate it within its own environment not among my text and time codes, it needs to be simply presented to me in a similar way my audio segmenting is.
By the way I am not a looper , I wish I had that skill, people that use loopers are normally brilliant musicians , I am a song manipulator using loops on stage I can play chords on a guitar with ease , I have all my songs fully line synced with chords but chords is something I use rarely on complicated songs , lyrics is my big problem now that I have aged, audio segmenting is very useful and now I am waiting to get better control of mute groups before i decide to go multitrack, but as time moves on I might have missed the boat on that one , younger users can work on that, my performing days are coming to an end after 51 years.
So good luck with the midi control side of things I hope Peter can pull a rabbit out of the hat for you and you never know I might start using it again to automate my vocal effects and my guitar effect processing, as I’m getting older lighting effects are better turned off a few candles lit up is all that I need and a good selection of jokes.
Last night I went to see a very popular stand up comedian 270 people attended , I think being a musician sucks, all he had was a mic stand a microphone simple 2 in-house speakers all provided for him , walks on stage talks crap that has us in stitches for 1 and a half hours and walks off with a huge applause, no midi no loops no nothing and $15,000 in his pocket , I wonder how much time he spent for prep
🤣 26 years ago as he is still using the same routine.
Cheers Damir

peter

Guys, you are mixing different topics in my opinion:

Showing midi events in the waveform (like the helix does)
Showing contents of a midi file similar to the arrange view of a DAW

I believe this topic requested item 2. Your discussions look more like item 1.

bnyrj

peter

Hi Peter, thanks — good point on the distinction.

Just to clarify, my request is only for MIDI visualization, not a DAW-style MIDI content view.

In Stage Traxx 4, MIDI already plays correctly and follows regions — it’s just invisible. I’m simply asking to display it on the timeline (like an audio waveform) so we can see it and use regions more accurately.

No MIDI editing, no added complexity — just visual feedback for something that already exists

MarkGuitar

peter
Item 2 would be less intuitive and less ‘visible’ if it is what I think you mean. Showing blobs of midi in a line doesn’t help much; is it a PC, is it a CC, what value is it, what channel.
What I hope we can achieve is

Visualise the mid events in a lane/timeline (whatever you call it) and be able to see the details of what the midi data is. IE I would love to see that the midi data blob just before the chorus of the song is sending the correct msg to set my pedal etc.
The flags idea was a way to think of the future when (inevitably) we will ask you to make the midi time line editable 🙂. Having the blobs shown as flags would allow a simple tap on the flag to edit the midi data and also allow adding or deleting ’flags’, thus making the midi edit process more visual and intuitive.

Just some ideas. No doubt someone will cry ‘too complex’ eh @Damir 🙂

bnyrj

@MarkGuitar
Let’s take this step by step — Peter can decide what comes first and what comes later.

@peter
I don’t believe Stage Traxx should include editing features. I see it primarily as a playback tool with enhanced control. If any editing is introduced, it should be without compromising stability and reliability.

My request is simply to extend that same control to MIDI.

Editing is better handled in a DAW, though additional features can always be considered later.

What matters most on stage is stability and reliability — that should never be compromised

MarkGuitar

bnyrj I don’t believe Stage Traxx should include editing features.

So what would you call the current MIDI editing features?
I am not suggesting any feature that isn't already there, just that the functionality to use it be made easier.

I am constantly staggered by the attitude of people on this forum who seem hell-bent on limiting the app to what they want it to be. When in fact most of the time, features being requested would have little or no impact on them, they simply need not use them. My car has a fancy radio and Bose sound system which I never use. But I still bought and enjoy using the car. Why cant people do the same with ST. If you dont like/want/need a feature, dont use it. There just might be another user that feels it is essential.

bnyrj

MarkGuitar

Hi Mark,

I’m new to Stage Traxx and was simply sharing a feature request I’d personally like to see. This thread was created by Peter to understand who supports the idea, so I’d prefer to keep the discussion focused on that.

I’m not against any features you or others may request — everyone has different needs and workflows.

Ultimately, it’s Peter who decides what’s right for the app.

For me, I see Stage Traxx primarily as a track player. Everything beyond that feels like a bonus. I haven’t come across another app that is as stable and reliable for this purpose. I do all my editing in a DAW and bring fully prepared tracks into Stage Traxx. So my priority is simply a stable setup to play audio and MIDI tracks with solid control over regions, sessions, bars, and playback.

Damir

MarkGuitar So what would you call the current MIDI editing features?
I am not suggesting any feature that isn't already there, just that the functionality to use it be made easier.

I am constantly staggered by the attitude of people on this forum who seem hell-bent on limiting the app to what they want it to be.

As I said before , I would use midi for simple commands if it was easier to use , but can it be made to do it easier? Or will something extra be added to bloat the software more and sill not make the difference to attract simple users.
Lets see where it goes . Come on midi users give more suggestions!
For me, it needs to be easy to program and easy to manipulate on ST itself otherwise it’s not practical if I need to involve a daw.
But that’s me.