How I tap tempo using ST MIDI

Vedeja

I just want to take some time and share how I control effects delay time. My setup is:

StageTraxx 3, running on an
IPad, connected via usb to
Allen&Heath CQ20B digital mixer, where I have configured
Softkey 1 to control Tap Tempo of FX1 (echo)

Furthermore, CQ20 allows to virtually ”press” the softkey with a MIDI Note On message. So in my ST lyrics I have (120 BPM example):
; Song BPM = 120. Beat time = 500 ms. Conclusion: send softkey press at 2s and 2.5s [midi@00:02.0: N48@1] ; Tempo tap #1 (softkey 1) [midi@00:02.5: N48@1] ; Tempo tap #2 (softkey 1)

This works great, especially if the taps are done a few seconds into the playback when the timing seems to have stabilized. The messages do NOT need to be sent in perfect sync with the tracks (which I know ST can’t anyway), they ONLY need to spaced apart accurately, which ST does. The example above results in 500ms almost every time, with a 501ms ever so often. Which has no practical impact on vocal echo. 😃

@peter, can you think of a simpler way to support this? A way where ST MIDI syntax maybe saves me from doing the calculations in my head:
delay_ms = 60000 / BPM offset = 2000 tap1 = offset tap2 = tap1 + delay_ms
and maintaining that manually for every song.

AnthonyB

With ST not having any notion of variables or a 'math engine' (which would be great additions in ST5 🙂 ) I can't see any way.

This is where I feel introducing the concept of variables into the lyric sheet syntax would (for power users) create a lot of flexibility and power.
Simplest way I could imagine doing it if this were introduced is:

Use the Note field to store a Delay value in milliseconds that is calculated offline
The Note field (like every other Song Details field) is available as a variable, let's call it %notes%

In the Lyrics page, which now supports variables and simple maths calculations when inside {{ }}, you could enter:

[midi@00:02.000: N48@1] ; tap 1
[midi@{{00:02.000+%notes%}}: N48@1] ; tap 2
[midi@{{00:02.000+(2*%notes%)}}: N48@1] ; tap 3 just for good measure

If you actually wanted to calculate the delay time inside of ST you'd need a few more variables:

Tempo (which already exists in Tempo field)
Delay note value (e.g. 1/2, 1/4, 1/4 triplet, 1/8 dotted, etc)
from there you can calculate the delay time, but you need to have the ability to set and store a Delay note value.

Anyway.. much like various batch operations features that have been tossed about, I hope something like this comes into existence one day, but it's certainly not amongst the highest of priorities.

Vedeja

AnthonyB ST not having any notion of variables or a 'math engine

Not ST, but the programming language in which it is written (Swift or Objective-C) certainly has. 😇

Anyway, your syntax ideas are along my thoughts. 👍But I wanted Peter’s own thoughts simply based on my problem description rather than solution suggestions. As a software architect I know that’s what I at least prefer. But who knows?!

Vedeja

AnthonyB I hope something like this comes

I’m curious, how do you currently handle delay times, if at all? Surely it’s not just we who wants it precise and automated?

AnthonyB

Vedeja I’m curious, how do you currently handle delay times, if at all? Surely it’s not just we who wants it precise and automated?

The mixer I use is the Behringer X32.
I can send a SYSEX command to set the delay time (in fact I can use SYSEX to load any effect into one of the 4 main FX slots AND then set any parameter of the effect)
I can also send CCs to mute/unmute the FX Send and Return busses.

So for any songs I need specific vocal delays I have a bunch of SYSEX to load the correct delay effect and set the specific delay time. Because I know the tempo we are performing a song at, I just use a Delay calculator (e.g. https://anotherproducer.com/online-tools-for-musicians/delay-reverb-time-calculator/) to determine the specific delay time.
I then use the CC to mute/unmute the FX Send and/or return busses so that the delay is only 'on' at the times I want it.

This was why I was a strong supporter of ST4 getting SYSEX support (which ST3 did not have) 🙂

Vedeja

AnthonyB I can send a SYSEX command to set the delay time

Jealous. When CQ gets that, midi tapping in timing is no longer needed for me.

Sharonzaz

I’ve always used tap for the helix. Even when I use my QUSB I run my voice fx through helix, makes things easy then, just an extra cable.

I always leave a little space (maybe a beat or so) and then I have a little chocolate pedal I use to send the CC64 I start at best 2 (click comes in two bars before I begin) and after 7 taps my tempo is pretty solid. If it’s off by a fraction it’s fine, I usually look at the helix it tells me the tempo as it picks up on the taps and it confirms if I’m off or have it good. 0.1/2) bpm off is still fine.

Vedeja

Sharonzaz so you tap tempo manually (pedually? 🙂) right?

In my case, I am usually very busy at the start of the song so automating tempo setting on vocal fx is something that takes away some stress.

Sharonzaz

Vedeja o you tap tempo manually (pedually? 🙂) right?

I am not sure if i didn't explain it right, i am recording those taps into Stagetraxx so
i dont need to do it live.

I am wanting to do the same with the rest of the functions in Helix, just haven't gotten round to it yet
its quite the job as everything by me is manual. no presets, only stomp box like changes