Multi track question

Mrjonsong

I currently run a single wav file, pre-mixed in Cubase for my backing tracks. If I was to migrate to multi-track playback (to separate the stems for more advanced processing in my mixer) would I need to rebuild my current catalog of songs or is there a way to migrate from single file song to multi file in ST3?

AnthonyB

In ST3, I don't think you can "migrate" from single file to multitrack audio song. You would have to create each song from scratch.

You might want to consider waiting for ST4 which doesn't have different types of songs. You could then migrate your existing ST3 environment into ST4 (Full Backup of your ST3, restore into ST4) which would convert the songs. THEN you could go through the process of, song by song, replacing your existing pre-mixed stereo file backing track with individual stems. There would still be a fair bit of work, but at least the Song itself (title, artist, duration, tempo, lyrics, etc.) are preserved.

Happy to be corrected on any of the above if I'm mistaken, or others have better proposals!

Mrjonsong

AnthonyB Ahh thank you that’s sounds much better than redoing 200 + songs. I have them all time stamped and DMX control with midi commands so it would be a huge lift otherwise

peter

Definitely wait for ST4 if it is not time critical.

Mrjonsong

peter Sounds like the best plan - looking forward to it! I am considering purchasing the CQ18T to replace my Bose T4S. I want to make sure that I can route the various stems to various channels in the mixer for processing before I make the leap. I am assuming this is possible if I connect via USB B from my iPad

Damir

Mrjonsong peter Sounds like the best plan - looking forward to it! I am considering purchasing the CQ18T to replace my Bose T4S. I want to make sure that I can route the various stems to various channels in the mixer for processing before I make the leap. I am assuming this is possible if I connect via USB B from my iPad

Yes it is , I have just purchased the same mixer.

AnthonyB

Mrjonsong I am considering purchasing the CQ18T to replace my Bose T4S. I want to make sure that I can route the various stems to various channels in the mixer for processing before I make the leap. I am assuming this is possible if I connect via USB B from my iPad

Yes (as Damir confirmed above), many in this community use that exact mixer (A&H CQ18T) in the exact way you are planning. The other mixer in the same 'space' for mine is the Behringer X Air XR18 (the smaller ones don't have the USB audio interface from memory). Depending on the profile of mixer (rack v desktop) and any other features/specs important to you, either mixer is a great companion to Stage Traxx.

Mrjonsong

Damir let me know how you like it. I’ve always mixed my tracks in Cubase and just used a stereo WAV for my backing tracks. I am looking forward to tweaking the mix with individual stems in the mixer.

Damir

Mrjonsong Damir let me know how you like it. I’ve always mixed my tracks in Cubase and just used a stereo WAV for my backing tracks. I am looking forward to tweaking the mix with individual stems in the mixer.

I bought it because i am thinking of going multitrack as a solo artist i don't really need it but if i find ST4 worthy to do so i will, the mixer is very compact and easy to setup , you will be able to use 8 stems in view at one time but is easy to swap to the other 8 , i think its perfect to use with ST 4 having 16 Chanel's , the mixer is nice sounding and has lots of great tools on board like feedback exterminator , 4 FX BUSES, easy gain setup on the inputs and lots of other normal stuff that works as expected , i love the fact it has 3 assignable knobs and a large knob that can be also used for whatever you need , i have my mic on one my guitar on two my backing on 3 and the master volume on the large knob , i run very simply with this mixer its a huge overkill but its small great sounding and gives me four knobs to control.
I could easily do an average band on this little beast with all the niceties required i have an XAir 18 mixer which is basically the same as this one but i decided i wanted knobs and a touch screen built in thats very powerful and reliable , so far it hasn't given me grief but its early days, lots of good feedback from others so i am confident it will be a good investment to use as an interface in studio and a mixer on stage, too many other features to mention but i haven't managed to find any bugs on it yet , i like it , with more use i think i might be saying i love it but not for now its still too early , just like ST4.
Good luck with it if you go that way.
Cheers Damir

MarkGuitar

This ^

It’s a great mixer. Super easy to use and great sounding. The mic preamps are amazing. The usb interface (for ST etc) works perfectly.
If I was being super picky, the only con I could give is that the power supply is a separate brick, not an internal supply with a standard ‘kettle’ type plug. But that really is being super fussy. It’s really not an issue.
Oh and one last thing. Get the matching A&H carry case. Top quality and fits like a glove. And not too expensive.

Damir

MarkGuitar If I was being super picky, the only con I could give is that the power supply is a separate brick, not an internal supply with a standard ‘kettle’ type plug. But that really is being super fussy. It’s really not an issue.

I also complained to the company regarding the turn on/off pops when powering up and down and thats due to having an external supply , with internal supplies they have the capability to work around this issue . But its not a problem if you do things in the correct order , turn on your mixer then your speakers then wind up the speaker gains, and do the opposite when shutting down.
Unfortunately this does not happen on occasions . Good design mixers still wont cause pops , but this is a relatively low budget mixer with a ship load of power.

peter

I can also recommend the CQ series. After years of working with Behringer digital mixers, the CQ series (in my case the CQ20) is my current mixer of choice. Yes, it has a more limited feature set than the Behringer mixers, but my mixes sound better on it. Not sure why. Maybe the 96kHz sample rate or better preamps? No idea.

Mrjonsong

This is exactly what I am thinking through. I have been using the Bose Pro32 with the T4S for many years with mixed backing tracks within Cubase exported as Wav. That setup has been pretty solid for me but I am really wanting to explore the additional flexibility for multi stem mixing to take our mix to the next level. Funny enough I had the X32 rack prior to the bose system and it was pretty solid - I just don't need the same amount of input/outputs and the CQ18T looks like it is the perfect fit. ST4 with my stems mixed in Cubase all connected to the CQ sounds like a great way to go.

Mrjonsong

I have a practical use question

I am planning on moving to ST4 combined with the CQ18t. As mentioned I mix all of my stems in Cubase14 and export them as wav files. Out in the wild do you recommend using the ST mixer to blend OR keeping the stems at 0db and using the A&H to mix? My drums and bass tracks are individually mixed the same across all of my songs for a consistent sound

Any guidance from other musicians would be appreciated

jaytrax

Mrjonsong

Gain staging on the mixer (digital) should be averaging -18dbfs

Your stems are connected to Song Volume
If stems are balanced (karaoke- version) you just need to change song volume which will bring all stems down relatively

ST is a source
A mixer is for setting optimal gain stage
Faders are for mixing balance

Mrjonsong

jaytrax thanks - I am very familiar with proper gain staging and mixing in general but I was more wondering about the new mixer in ST4 and the use case for it. I plan on changing from a stereo wav (pre mixed) to multi track into the mixer which would give me the flexibility to adjust instruments individually on the fly. Would it be better to do that in the app or mixer. Interested in hearing what others are doing. Doing it in the app seems like it would require less tweaking per song - set it and forget it kinda

peter

The way I work with multitracks is to balance the mix in ST so that it sounds already great when I send it via a single stereo out.

If there is a sound guy that wants Independent stems, I can just route the buses to individual outputs so that they can be processed individually if needed.

The other way around might not work as well. So if you just maximise the volume for each bus for example to get the best signal to noise ratio, you will not get a balanced mix if you need to route everything to a single stereo output.

Mrjonsong

peter thanks Peter. I do the mixing from the stage and would like to run each track to an input on the mixer for more control. Like adding eq and compression to the drum bus and then something different to the bass as example. I program all of my drums and bass using the same vst presets to keep the overall sound the same across the songs so I was thinking that I could use the channels on the CQ18t to dial the mix even more

AnthonyB

Mrjonsong I take the approach of spending a lot of time up front to get the balance right of:

elements within my backing tracks reletive to each other ()i.e. the backing track mix)
my backing tracks relative to the rest of the band (who have also spent time getting their own guitar/bass patch volumes balanced, etc.)

That way when I walk into any venue, 'the band' mix relative to each other is pretty much done and doesn't need to be touched. The only variable for the FoH Sound Engineer is balancing 'the mix' I provide with the sound of the acoustic drum kit in the room, and then any minor EQ tweaks to accomodate the room/stage acoustics and PA.

Back to ST - I do not touch the mixer - everything flat. I don't see any value is messing around with track and bus volumes gig to gig. This would generally indicate that I haven't got my backing tracks 'mix' right, and that is on me to get right before walking into gigs.

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB
Exactly as we do it.

Mrjonsong

AnthonyB Thanks confirms my thought as well. I spend a lot of time mixing the tracks, etc. so that the songs are consistent throughout the night. With the multi track approach I was hoping to maintain that with minimal messing around