Another Audio loop logic problem

AnthonyB

Yep, can repro. (Hey Damir, maybe a bit more detail/effort in your bug reports so Peter doesn't have to do as much heavy lifting?).

LIkely related to some other issues reported in same part of the UI, e.g. https://support.stagetraxx.com/d/3619-audio-segment-display-not-showing-beginning-segment-when-next-song-is-engaged/4

In below example, I'm in the last audio region of the song (Ch 6).

I then close the Playlist and collapse the sidebar. Lyric page goes full page width, and I also see more of the earlier Audio Regions:

Then, re-open the Playlist. It seems to have taken the full-width view of above, and pushed that right to accomodate the Playlist. As a result, the active region is not visible as it has been been pushed off the right side of the screen.

So, the problem with this issue, and the issue here (https://support.stagetraxx.com/d/3619-audio-segment-display-not-showing-beginning-segment-when-next-song-is-engaged/4) is that they are essentially the same problem, and are not 'context aware' to know which audio regions MUST be visible.

E.g.

If we are at start of song, then we need to see the left-most audio regions.
If the song is playing, AND we are in later audio regions, AND the sidebar is opened, we should not push the CURRENT active audio region off the right edge of the screen.
When a song is playing and the sidebar changes state which affects the visible audio regions pane, I guess we need logic along the lines of 'always keep the active region on screen'. Then the question is, how many to the left/right? Should we attempt to position the active region in the centre (because who knows who is going to want to jump to an earlier region vs a later region?)

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB
Wouldn’t the simplest (at least to me) answer be to always have the current playing loop marker centered? I may be over-simplifying it though 🙂

Damir

AnthonyB Yep, can repro. (Hey Damir, maybe a bit more detail/effort in your bug reports so Peter doesn't have to do as much heavy lifting?).

Sorry i thought i gave simple precise information that if followed reproduced the bad logic.
Normally i only attach photos when i cant explain something.

AnthonyB

MarkGuitar Wouldn’t the simplest (at least to me) answer be to always have the current playing loop marker centered? I may be over-simplifying it though

My thoughts precisely, but I only use the regions as a visual guide. Someone using it for looping and repeating parts of songs might see it differently. <shrug>

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB Someone using it for looping and repeating parts of songs might see it differently. <shrug>

Strikes me it is impossible for @Peter to second which region should be made visible as it is not possible to know which regions a user will want to jump to.
Maybe the user should just not open/close the song list during playback if they want to do looping/jumping.
Bit like the Doctor joke “it only hurts if I press this”, “then don’t press it sir” 🙂

Damir

MarkGuitar Strikes me it is impossible for @Peter to second which region should be made visible as it is not possible to know which regions a user will want to jump to.
Maybe the user should just not open/close the song list during playback if they want to do looping/jumping.
Bit like the Doctor joke “it only hurts if I press this”, “then don’t press it sir” 🙂

There is basic logic that the software needs to follow and it would make sense to what should do when and where,
As you are playing loops you need to see the now playing loop,
If you decide to find another loop the view has to follow your search movement still keeping the audio segments in middle , as you find the next loop and select it the software should give you time to see that you have made that selection then return back to the now playing loop so you can see the progress bar of that loop , when its complete the NEXT loop jumps to the middle of the screen and the whole process gets repeated , this allows you to move all around the song loops and a quick way to return to the now playing loop.
ST 4 has almost got it right it just needs tweaking, just like ST3 audio segment editor , it took us a lot of tweaking to get it just right so it became fast and easy to use.

AnthonyB

Damir Sorry i thought i gave simple precise information that if followed reproduced the bad logic.
Normally i only attach photos when i cant explain something.

You often explain things in a brief fashion that probably makes sense to you, based on the way you work, and the way you think, and the way you use ST, and the terminology you use. This can make it very hard work for others to comprehend and lead to misunderstanding, or simply exhaustion and not bothering to try.

An example of the point about using correct terminology - you keep talking about 'Loops'. ST does not have loops, it has Audio Regions. They can be used for a number of things, including loops. While using the term 'loops' makes complete sense to you as you use that feature, for someone that never uses loops, it is at best confusing, at worse meaningless.

The language and terminology we use can make a big difference in people comprehending what we say/type; and that is the goal of communication right?

Also, this is definitely NOT having a go at your (or anyone's) English language writing given I appreciate that for many people here, English is not their native language. I can't speak/write a 2nd language, so I greatly respect those that can!

MarkGuitar

Damir If you decide to find another loop the view has to follow your search movement

Errr, what exact does this mean?

Damir

MarkGuitar If you decide to find another loop the view has to follow your search movement

Errr, what exact does this mean?
Using IPhone 16 pro max 26.0.1 ST4 1876
If you have an audio segment (LOOP) in simple way to describe it, PLAYING, and you decide to jump to another LOOP , when you start searching by using remotes or the assignable buttons , the movement indicator should follow the audio segments anywhere you go so you can see what you are selecting , once you have arrived on the loop you need and it highlights GIVING YOU A MOMENT TO CONFIM IT BY HIGHLIGHTING IT, it then should automatically return you back to the now playing LOOP so you can continue your performance .
At the moment this is not happening , perhaps it has been fixed in the latest update as I have not checked it yet.

I have just confirmed it , it’s still not happening

Damir

AnthonyB all good I understand your point.
I speak and write 2 languages fluently and because of that I understand those that explain things vaguely , perhaps that’s my problem.
Regarding Audio segments verses LOOPS , I never liked audio segments for only one reason, it takes to long to write and say , LOOPS is exactly what we are creating when we segment a song and the terminology permanent loop is already in use , plus it’s quick to write and say , I just thing is unnecessary to torture ourselves with the long terminology for the sake of being politically correct , by that I mean computer programmer correct but real life a pain in the but.
So I do apologise if I have confused people by using LOOPS by being efficient.
Sorry.

MarkGuitar

@Damir
When you say it may be “fixed” are you saying that ST3 does this at present?
If not I would suggest what you are asking for would be a nightmare to program. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are asking for.
It’s not really my place to say what Peter can or can’t do but as an observation it seems very tricky.
In some ways it seems that the prime objective of ST is not a good fit for your way of working. It seems you would be better off with a loop player like Loop On or Music Looper, rather than trying to force ST into being a looper. Just a thought.

AnthonyB

Damir LOOPS is exactly what we are creating when we segment a song

No, that is the purpose that you are using it for.
It can also be used for other purposes beyond loops. What if I started calling them Markers because that is how I use them? Or Segment buttons? Some people might understand, others might not.

In Stage Traxx, the terminology used in the interface is Region.

All I'm saying is, if we want to be understood by as many people as possible, then being specific and accurate with the words we use greatly improves that. If we choose not to, and/or we use coloquial terminology, and/or we use outcome instead of feature terminology, then we reduce our ability to be understood.
If we reduce our ability to be understood here, in a Support Community, then we're going to have less people able/willing to help us.
So, if we hope to have more people help, we need to communicate more effectively.
We all get to make that decision everytime we get in front of the keyboard.

I'm certainly not attempting to tell anyone how to behave; I have zero rights to do so. I'm just sharing some wisdom on effective communications learnt from my own experience from years of working in large corporations, doing software testing and providing feedback to dev teams, and working with customers. People are welcome to do what they will with it 🙂

Damir

AnthonyB No, that is the purpose that you are using it for.
It can also be used for other purposes beyond loops. What if I started calling them Markers because that is how I use them? Or Segment buttons? Some people might understand, others might not.

My point is you can call it X if it’s easier to say and write, than it does not matter to end users how many ways or uses it has, we have permanent loops in the software we don’t say permanent audio segments because it’s too long there are loopers available on the market they are not called Audio segmenters for a reason , because practicality is the name of the game, it’s easy to say and write and we all know what it actually is and does , why are there millions of RODs in the world because RODNEY is to long to say , you get my point?
It’s not good to be too technically correct as that is also off putting, sometimes good software has to be technically incorrect to be user friendly .

AnthonyB

Damir

What you are essentially saying is it is OK to call any feature in ST whatever you like because it is easier to type or it's what you think of it as?

I disagree with everything you've said above (I think you are missing my points), especially in the context of effective communication in software testing feedback. However, I'm not going to continue the conversation as I've said all I think I am prepared to say on this topic.

We're all allowed to ignore guidance and feedback if we so choose 🙂

MarkGuitar

Damir It’s not good to be too technically correct as that is also off putting, sometimes good software has to be technically incorrect to be user friendly .

Having spent 25 years running a software development company I can categorically say this is wrong. Nothing more to say…