Moving from VoiceLive 3 Extreme to Stage Traxx – Advice Needed

SharkeyMusic

Hi everyone,

I’m considering moving to a different setup because of the lack of support and uncertain future for the TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3 Extreme.
Currently, I use the VL3X to:
Play backing tracks,
Handle my vocal and guitar sound,
Automate FX changes for each song.
Alongside that, I use an iPad app called ShowPlay to manage lyrics, scrolling, and chords.
Since I’m heavily invested in automation on the VL3X, I’m trying to figure out the best way forward. Specifically:
If I move away from the VL3X, what guitar + vocal FX processors with MIDI compatibility are people using successfully with Stage Traxx?
Has anyone here actually migrated from a VL3X workflow into Stage Traxx? How smooth was the transition?
For those using Stage Traxx, how well does it handle backing track playback + MIDI automation for FX changes compared to what the VL3X does in one box?
And finally, if anyone has experience moving content from ShowPlay into Stage Traxx, do the text/lyric/chord formats transfer easily, or will it require significant re-working?
Any recommendations, real-world experiences, or lessons learned would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

AnthonyB

SharkeyMusic If I move away from the VL3X, what guitar + vocal FX processors with MIDI compatibility are people using successfully with Stage Traxx?

Guitar Processors I'm supporting/automating - Hotone Ampero II Stage and Line6 Helix LT. The Helix is a much older and physically larger device than the Hotone, but from a MIDI automation perspective, nearly identical in what you can do. For both devices I'm fully automating bank/program/scene/snapshot changes, turning specific Effects Blocks On/Off at relevant times within a song, etc.

Vocal Processors - funnily enough, I've spent the last 6 months researching this as I didn't want a floor-based unit (e.g. the TC-Helicon) but I also didn't want to spend more than about USD$400. For me it came down to buying a cheap and cheerful Behringer FX2000 3D 1RU multi-effects unit that lends itself to vocal effects, or learning to automate the built-in FX units in my Behringer X32 mixer. The latter was going to cost me nothing (except a lot more time), and save me 1RU in my mixer rack (and I didn't have 1RU to spare easily anyway) and because I use our X32 primarily as IEM mixer, I'd have to do some additional routing and patching to send a Vocal FX output to FoH along with the rest of our stage splits at gigs. Honestly, if you have the VL3X already and are happy with it, I'd consider keeping it and just using it as a dedicated FX processor!

I can't talk to any of your other migration specifics as my path into ST was different, but one trap many people fall into is trying to hold on to a lot of their original setup because they feel it will save them time in the transition, and they've obviously already made a large time investment in their existing setup, ironed out the kinks, and got it working (or adapted to the limitations). By hanging on to too much of their old setup, they create an overly complicated frankenstiein's monster type situation and don't manage to leverage the best of their old OR new environment.

In general, I would strongly recommend taking the approach of starting fresh in Stage Traxx. Look at all the functionality and map out what you want to use, and how. Factor in a future path to adopt features you may not want to use right from the outset so you don't paint yourself into a corner. Appreciate that you will likely have to alter some of your workflows in creating, moving, editing, sharing backing tracks/lyric sheets.

I don't know how you are automating MIDI currently, but with Stage Traxx 3, this part of the documentation is key - https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/midi/
All MIDI events are embedded in the lyric sheet. Stage Traxx 4 (due later this year) will add support for an actual MIDI file containing controller events which will save time for those of us currently building everything in a DAW and then having to essentially 'export' the MIDI event data (basically a manual process) into lyric sheets.

Chemabazan

I also own a VL3X and have done the transition. Here are my findings:

You can play the music directly from Stagetraxx and you don’t need to store it on the VL3.
Yes, you can program midi events in Stagetraxx that trigger the effects on the VL3: chorus, reverb, harmonies, etc.
The way I like it better is to program the effects in a stored song in VL3x (whatever distortion or amp simulation for the guitar, or a specific harmony or delay time for vocals), and have Stagetraxx switch to that song via midi. Then you have the best of both worlds: you are programming on the VL3, and triggering the song and effects on Stagetraxx.
Yes, you need to learn the midi syntax for Stagetraxx and the correlation to the banks and effects in VL3, but after some head scratching you get used to it.

All the best!

jaytrax

Multitracks and lyrics are triggered on Stage Traxx,
In the lyrics edit, my midi is sent to voicelive 3 to change my presets
I have 24 presets
12 major keys
12 minor keys

My voicelive is literally a harmony pedal, guitar and vocal fx turned off

I use a Boss GX-100 and Tonex for guitar tones

Behringer Wing Rack/waves Superrack for all vocal processing and fx

Midimannz

Hello, I noticed on another post you have created 12 Major and 12 Minor keys on your VL3X.

Have you associated each of your three 'noted' harmony settings to these patches (meaning your Key of A has three pre programmed patches associated with it)?

I'm moving away from having the backing tracks in the VL3X as I've run out of hard drive space (300 backing tracks) and I have a total of 650 songs in ST3 so your method is exactly where I am heading

Thanks

jaytrax

Well you can create steps within your preset
So say in your example
Midi PC triggers Key of A
You could have 3rd as step one
3rd and 5th as step two
And so on
You can manually cycle your steps or midi them also

Midimannz

Great, may I ask what the midi command for these steps within the patch look like?

jaytrax

They will depend where you have your presets stored on the voicelive
You can always go up or down 1 preset, press midi learn in lyrics editor and change your preset and it’ll show up

miktylor

Hello all

Saw this post, used some of the info to get me going so I thought I'd just post the following to clarify what the actual commands look like in StageTraxx3 (ST3) lyric editor.

I am running iPad with StageTraxx3, TC Helicon Voicelive 3 Extreme (VL3X), Widiflex Bluetooth Midi connector (Although I have also used a UBS to USB (iPad to VL3X) and a USB to Midi converter cable which all work.

My VL3X is set to Midi Channel 1 on input & output (Find this in "SETUP" menu under the MIDI tab)

These work for me;
At the top of my lyric sheet under the title which is the same in every song I want to use midi commands;

EXAMPLE 1.
[midi: CC32]

Then, on a new line (just so it's easier to find it & edit if required) I use the following to tell VL3X which preset I want;
This example will set the VL3X to preset number 1

EXAMPLE 2.
[midi: PC0.0@1]

That's it, no other code required to select a preset.

If I wanted to change from preset "1" to "110" I would change [midi: PC0.0@1] to;

EXAMPLE 3.
[midi: PC109.0@1]
Note the 109 is derived from the preset I want, plus whatever Midi Channel I use (My VL3X is set to Midi channel 1)

As stated before, the VL3X presets are divided into banks, so this is how changing the BANKS looks;
(I have included the first & last preset within each bank to help work out the banks easier)

EXAMPLE 4.
BANK 1
[midi: PC0.0@1] = Preset 1
[midi: PC127.0@1] = Preset 128
BANK 2
[midi: PC0.1@1] = Preset 129
[midi: PC127.1@1] = Preset 256
BANK 3
[midi: PC0.2@1] = Preset 257
[midi: PC127.2@1] = Preset 384
BANK 4
[midi: PC0.3@1] = Preset 385
[midi: PC115.3@1] = Preset 500

I have tested all of these and they work.

It's worth noting that I had alot of trouble trying to work out the codes etc and most of that was due to me testing preset numbers that were actually blank or as yet unused presets. When trying to select a preset that isn't activated (IE hasn't been used or created) then the midi code fails but there is no notification or indeed any way of knowing which lead me to think my code was wrong. So, if you use the above & it doesn't work first check that the VL3X preset you are trying to load actually exists. Otherwise, create it & you're sweet.

Finally, ST3 can be used to activate (On or Off) any of the VL3X footswitch buttons with the exception of the Layer switch (used to change between Vocals, Guitar or Looper) and the Step switch.

To wrap up, I use ST3 to select the song I want, load whichever preset I want to use for that song on the VL3X. Once I hit play on ST3 I use automations to activate / deactivate any footswitchs I want at whatever timestamp within the song I choose. It works great! Oh, and because I am connected to my PA via bluetooth (PA is JBL Eon One Compact) the ST3 is where my backing tracks come from.

Good luck & have fun. Both the VL3X & ST3 are awesome products that work very well together.

Cheers
Mik

Midimannz

Great post thanks. Do you know how to midi steps commands?
If step one was 3rd up harmony , step two was choral, step three was 3rd up/5th down does it drop in and out of those steps by midi easily?