Issue with a playback

mrculp

I have a song that for some reason has one track that gets out of sync with the other tracks, I have tried multiple times to create it again and again, if I play the tracks in a DAW like reaper, it is fine, but when I import them into a multitrack entry in ST it play "one" track out of sync, if I mute the track everything is good, I'm not sure how to fix this, or if as has happened in the past to me, the previous track somehow has a lingering effect on this track, I reported a similar issue that Peter acknowledged was an issue, so I'm not ruling out previous track impact, however I have played the track "isolated" ie: without previous tracks, and still has sync issues....
I can send the track if you'd like......or perform some testing scenarios

mrculp

A little more information, I have a track that plays before it and ends @ 2:52.30 (the track is 4:14 long) and the track that plays after this starts at 00:00.50 as I'm trying to do a mashup, so first song ends and next song cuts in, idealy, I'd like to do a crossfade right at this time, not sure if that can be accomplished, but the second track starts coming "off the rails" shortly after the change from first song to second song.......seems "sometimes" I can play the song without issue when played by itself, but I need to test additional scenarios....

peter

Most likely this is an issue with different sample rates for your tracks. You can send me your logfiles via Settings > Create support email and write down at what time the playback issue happened.

mrculp

I am still having an issue with certain tracks within a song playing at different times when on autoplay for the playlist…..when song is played by itself it appears to be fine….all of the tracks are from karaoke version, it’s annoying as I need to have autoplay for certain playlists…..please advise how I can work around this please

peter

Are these both multitracks? Are they using the same track configuration?

mrculp

peter what do you mean buy same track config? Why would this matter? For you receive my support log files did it provide any insights?

peter

With track configuration I mean the same track layout. So both songs have for example 4 tracks like this: drums, bass, gtr, others.

I have received some empty emails with logfiles in recent days. I delete those as I have no idea what the issue is. You need to write a short description about the issue or at least point me to your forum name in the email so that I know what it is about.

mrculp

Yes all my tracks follow the same layout….. how else can I help to track down this issue?

mrculp

Some times a track before might or might not have a track in a particular position, for example drums are track 1 if the next song has no drums then I do not populate track 1

peter

This might be the cause of the issue. Stage Traxx reuses audio players and sometimes not using track 1 for example can cause issues in the reported timings. Version 4 will work differently so that this will hopefully no longer be an issue.

In ST3, you can recover from this by stopping playback, seeking into the song and back and restarting playback.

mrculp

Ok....I'll need to not use autoplay for the playlist at a live event if this is the case, as this will not be the desired work-around, I'll have to play them manually until such time as I can rely on the tracks playing from song to song without getting out of sync......also I'd still like to see a way to have a delayed start time for a "song" not just at the playlist level.....this to me seems very intuitive when putting a show together .....also on the existing delay setting for the playlist it would be helpful to possibly have some type of countdown to know when the song portion is going to start, for example if the song has a 7 second delay and you have the playlist set to delay start by 5 seconds, there is no way (at least that I can see...) to see how many seconds into the delay start you actually are.....for certain songs this can be really confusing for everyone in the band......it would help to have a countdown timer that you could toggle on or off for those of us that maybe need this .....just my .02 .......I will always suggest things that help live performers to utilize the product for how they runs their shows.....and this is one way I run my show that could help my bandmates out.....for those on this forum that do not care about such features....maybe you could simply default for it to be "off" but for us that could use this feature it would be a welcome addition......I have been experimenting with various timings of delayed start .....and it always messes up the rest of the band as there is no indicator to show when the introduced delay is versus the time in the song...especially for songs that have a quiet intro for example like "Nowhere Man" by the Beatles has 10 seconds of acapella in the beginning of the song, since the delayed start feature has no counter everyone is starting at a different point.....now I know what you are thinking........maybe go to my DAW and put this cue and that cue and clicks and all kinds of junk into the tracks to "work-around" but its a lot of work to get that right ...especially since you already have a "delayed start feature" just would like to see it enhanced to be more "convenient" and would avoid to have to do all of that work on each of the songs......I have hundreds of songs......and over 300 different playlists for various formats of bands for everything I play in, from acoustic single guitarist singer to several bands with various members......and I have the same song structured differently depending how I play it and what band format I'm in....sometimes the song is slower....and different key....sometimes faster ....just depends.....but the delayed start is a great feature, and could be, at least for me, more useful at the "song" level with a visible countdown timer that is independent of the timer for the song....or it could be the same location but with a minus symbol indicating its a "system" delay and not one in the actual song.....anyway.....from my past experience with this group I'm sure someone will tell me how this is not a helpful feature, but this is simply my opinion and I think it would be a great feature that I and the 10 others that I play with in various bands and formats agree, I have influenced at least 10 other people to download and pay for licenses for this software because it is great and useable for me, I'm simply giving feedback on things that would make it more useful "to me" and my bandmates.......anyway, if anyone has any positive comments about this or maybe ways to accomplish what I am looking for, and yes I know I can do this on my DAW with my recordings, was wanting to keep it in the product......please advise......

Damir

mrculp song" not just at the playlist level.....this to me seems very intuitive when putting a show together

If delay start feature is something you really need a lot then in your DAW edit all your songs to start 30 seconds later that way you can use the individual song TRIM START to choose any time delay for any song up to 30 seconds , I like an immediate start on beat one personally but you do have choices to do what you need , this applies for the end of song TRIM you simply choose what you need in the DAW and use ST3 to fine tune your needs.
This app is a lot more flexible than it looks.

mrculp

Damir Hi Damir, I try not to make it a habit to go modify all 1500 - 2000 songs as I generally have between 6 - 12 tracks for each song and then sometimes multiple versions....it would be an absolute ton of work versus simply setting a delay that I can set per song......but then again I can only ask for features it obviously was a consideration as it was implemented on the Playlist level just carry it down to song level....not sure why that is difficult as you already have it at Playlist level store one more field of data at the song record level.... done..... anyway I figured as a customer I'd make a case for things to make software more usable for me....have a great day!!!

Damir

mrculp

mrculp I totally understand your dilemma and understand the effort it would take to modify your tracks I thought I would point out for new comers to seriously think before they start of what they need to have a system that works for them .
By introducing more features the software becomes very confusing to people , I know everybody has different needs but we need to keep ST3 simple and easy otherwise everyone will not be happy with it being complicated , there has to be a point where we stop introducing features and accept this is the way this software runs and it does it simply.
I don’t use TRIM at all because I fix all my beginnings and ends in the DAW to how I want every song to start and end , having TRIM is there just for that reason to customise each song to how you want it to start and end , unfortunately you haven’t considered its purpose and have not edited your songs appropriately , that’s unfortunate but why introduce more complexity to ST3 to fix bad DAW prep work , there are ways around your problem , just create dummy songs with silence and insert them between songs and you have the ability to play the next song automatically , this way you can have numerous different delay time songs and choose the delay time you need , place these dummy songs just before the actual song you need and place it to auto play this way you have full control of where you want the delay , all you need to do is create silenced songs of varying lengths and label/colour them accordingly so you can simply insert them when ever you need a delay .
This is your easiest fix to your problem .

mrculp

Yes I would agree, but you “already have this feature” in your software ….might be different if you hadn’t forgotten that little detail, wasnt asking for anything you “didn’t already include in your software” wasnt really my lack of planning ……did you realize there was already a start delay feature in the software? If you do, why was this even added??? Please explain this feature as I may be uneducated as to its purpose…..and thank you for educating me in recording techniques it will be helpful

Damir

mrculp Yes I would agree, but you “already have this feature” in your software

Yes, but it’s a global setting , it’s ok if you need a timed start delay on all songs.
As you said it’s not really useful for majority, I agree.
That’s why all my songs are instant start and I use a foot pedal to trigger the start manually this gives me total control to create any delay on the run , no need to program anything the next song gets selected automatically and waits for my start command.

mrculp

Thanks again for your responses so far.

While I understand the concern about feature creep, one part of my original feedback that hasn’t yet been addressed is the request for a visible countdown timer for the existing delayed start feature.

Regardless of whether delayed starts are set at the playlist or someday at the song level, a simple, optional visual countdown clock would be tremendously helpful during live performances — especially when starting songs with a quiet intro or a delayed first beat.

This would not increase complexity for users who don’t want it, because it could easily be made an optional toggle in the settings.

In short:
• The countdown would help synchronize the band visually during delays.
• It would increase live performance confidence without requiring additional DAW edits or dummy track workarounds.
• It would not change the behavior of the software for users who prefer immediate starts.

I still believe the countdown timer would be a valuable enhancement even without any changes to the existing trim or delay setup.

Thank you again for your time and consideration — I’m only offering this because I truly appreciate what the app already offers and see ways to make it even better for live performers.

Damir

mrculp Regardless of whether delayed starts are set at the playlist or someday at the song level, a simple, optional visual countdown clock would be tremendously helpful during live performances — especially when starting songs with a quiet intro or a delayed first beat.

This would not increase complexity for users who don’t want it, because it could easily be made an optional toggle in the settings.

In short:
• The countdown would help synchronize the band visually during delays.
• It would increase live performance confidence without requiring additional DAW edits or dummy track workarounds.
• It would not change the behavior of the software for users who prefer immediate starts.

I still believe the countdown timer would be a valuable enhancement even without any changes to the existing trim or delay setup.

I am beginning to see your need and way of thinking and operating, and must agree with you .
I also program some intro parts where I have low level backing and perform with guitar and vocals and need to be in perfect sync when full backing is introduced , so what I do is as I hit start I have a visual numbers count down to guide me along the way so I am confident when the main backing starts , this takes effort to program and some people have sound cues which takes even more effort and creates a more complicated audio fold back system, I prefer to run simply and have a full front house mix on my fold back speaker as I also mix my sound on stage to create a good audio balance, so a visual cue is very helpful to me.
Yes I could see a benefit of simply selecting a start delay where I hit start walk away from my mic stand where all my controls are and with a visual cue count down know exactly when the song will start , this would not happen often but some songs might give me inspiration to do this so to change the perception to the audience that I always have to be in the one spot when I start.
By having it available to easily create for any song I could rearrange this option for different gigs.
Also in a band situation all would know exactly when the song starts without having to spend time and effort programming complicated cues.
So yes I do see the benefit as it would be easy to just create instant start audio and simply choose a count in visual and audio click cue that would adjust its timing according to the songs TEMPO. Now it really becomes simple and saves a lot of prep work , I am beginning to warm to this way of thinking.
Hopefully Peter can think about this approach as I am all about saving time to get best results on stage.
Cheers Damir

mrculp

Thanks again for taking the time to discuss this in depth.

I completely understand that different performance styles have different needs —
and I appreciate you explaining your personal workflow with the foot pedal method as well.

For my performance setups, especially involving roaming and more automated shows,
pre-programming region sequences and having a per-song countdown timer would be huge advantages,
but I fully understand if it’s not a majority requirement right now.

I also just want to mention —
should Peter ever consider implementing something along these lines,
I would be happy to personally help sponsor the development effort to help offset the time and work involved.

Again, I really appreciate the thoughtful conversation —
Stage Traxx is already a fantastic tool, and it’s been great to have a professional discussion around its continued evolution.

Best regards,
Mike Culp
mike.culp@gmail.com

peter

Stage Traxx can not know when your playback actually starts if your audio file contains silence at the beginning. So displaying an automatic timer does not seem viable.

Why not add a lyrics based timer with appropriate highlighting? For example if your playback starts after 5 seconds, add the following lyrics:

[00:00]5
[00:01]4
[00:02]3
[00:03]2
[00:04]1

Damir

peter Stage Traxx can not know when your playback actually starts if your audio file contains silence at the beginning. So displaying an automatic timer does not seem viable.

That’s why we have trim, once you use it the song has a starting point , we have a tempo setting the BPM setting , once we use it the song knows the speed , all you need to do is use those settings to arrange a pre defined count in , and if you have done this on a song it uses the start of song time to count down to then starts the song it uses the BPM setting to set its count speed. If you don’t have a BPM setting the count in function is not available to that song , this forces you to enter this setting.
I believe it’s all possible with what we have even on ST3 and especially on ST4 if it will be able to work out the beat of the song and give us an automatic average BPM .My songs are all instant start so I would not need to use trim at all but I could easily set a delay count in as long as I have all my songs BPM information , which I have.

mrculp

peter the problem with this is that the delay you have programmed at the playlist level starts “before” the play back of the tracks therefore if I know the delay is 3 seconds programmed from the playlist level and an additional 10 seconds for the song….. I do not know when the play list delay is ending and my delay on the track is starting therefore having a visual count down for the delay at the play list level for everyone in the band that is attached to network make it a much better count as I already have count downs in the songs, if you can simply make a toggle to give a visual count down it would be wonderful……I think Damir sees why im asking for this……

mrculp

peter btw….i do use this technique for when lyrics are ready to come in…….pain in the butt to do this everywhere…..however I do use it……it would be great to be able to flash screen a second or two before coming in on lyrics……being able to program this would be great……that way if you are engrossed in playing a lead for example ….it keeps you from blowing through your cue to start singing again as an example……if you implement this feature I can demo this in a video as to how this helps performers