• Gginacc

    • Post #1
    • Edited

    Hello - longtime Stagetraxx user and lover.

    I'm just wondering if there's a trick to getting higher output volume -- here's the situation:

    • Running ST3 on an iPad 9 with Stereo Cable for Left/Right signals.
    • The iPad volume is turned ALL the way up, and stays up.
    • The playlist volume is set to 0 db (so not adding or taking away anything.)
    • Running through a Radial Pro DI Passive Stereo Direct Box to limit some of the hum/buzz we used to get
    • We were already having issues with venues asking us if we could give them any more signal -- adding the Radial Pro DI Passive Direct Box of course pulled our signal down by many dB, so we've Gained the two channels up as far as they can go. Venues are still asking if we can give them any more.
    • In case it matters, we're running it through a Behringer X-32 Rack mixer.

    Anything else I can try? I specifically did not buy the ACTIVE Radial Pro DI because I read online that it was giving people issues and I don't need any more points of potential failure in my system.

      • Damir

        • Post #2

        ginacc you could get more gain by introducing the master EQ which has an extra 12db gain but that’s not the answer to your problem as it can introduce other problems.
        You need to find your problem and fix it where it needs to be fixed.
        You should have more than enough gain to go in to a normal mixer which would easily compensate for the 6db less output ST3 has due to its built in safety feature so you don’t end up with a distorted sound.
        Your buzz you get could be you are running on a power supply with unbalanced headphone out audio in to a mixer can cause earth loop buzz, I use a battery power brick instead to eliminate this which gives me ample power to do a long show , I don’t rely on my devices battery alone.
        With the buzz problems eliminated I use a very good cable not longer than 5 meters in to a Yamaha on stage mixer which either feeds my pa or a venue pa, this acts like an elaborate di box which gives me on stage control and brings up the levels to line level for large venues.
        I never have gain issues.

            why are you running the output from your iPad to a Di box .theres no need to ,plug into 2 channels on your mixer 1 for each channel l AND R ,TURN your ipad on play and alter the gains to zero db with channel volumes off. .set main output to zero db ,then just feed your 1 and 2 channels volumes in until you get the required volumes, IF you cant get the gains to go to zero db on your mixer then your music files gains are probably to low, we have bass lead guitars 2 vocal mics and 2 channels for the ipad ,and i can blow the windows out with going over zero db anywhere. if anybody whats a line out to another mixer just give them a stereo out of the full mix

              I'm using ST3 on an iPad with a Behringher X-32 rack mixer as well.

              Is there a reason you aren't using the digital input (i.e. iPad USB-C to USB-B) on the back of the X-32? This will give you the cleanest signal path and plenty of gain to work with.

                • peter

                • Post #5

                Maybe you are running into the half volume bug when the combine headphones & usb option is enabled. So make sure to disable it. Apart that you could add some volume with the master equalizer gain as @Damir suggested but look out for clipping. Make sure your songs don't clip with the higher volume settings.

                  davedroug We're using a DI box for two reasons - #1, hums and buzzes from variable power situations at venues (the iPad is already plugged into a power conditioner and that didn't help) and #2, we were getting a bad bleed from L/R which meant the click track was faintly heard in the house. The DI box eliminated the bleed.

                    AnthonyB the iPad 9 doesn't have a USB-C output - it's lightning.

                        peter I will double check that. I know I turned that option off once before, it's possible it got turned back on. I'll check it when I get home to the device.

                          Damir My biggest issue with not being able to use a longer cable is that we're playing large venues where the house inputs are sometimes up to 40 feet from where my Host iPad has to be (it lives next to the drummer so he can be in control of stopping the set if necessary.) I see no way around the distance issue. He can't control the iPad if it's living by the House inputs. The drummer uses an Airturn foot pedal to control, but he still needs to be able to see and reach the device.

                              ginacc that doesn't matter. I'm using a Gen 5 iPad which has lightning connector. Just get a $10 (or ~$50 if you want to buy Apple Genuine) Lightning to USB 3 adapter (e.g. https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MX5J3AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter) that has a lightning AND USB-A port. You can then continue to power your iPad via the lightning port on the adapter, and use a USB-A to USB-B cable to connect to the X-USB card in the back of the X32. This is a MUCH better way of working than using the headphone output. You'll get much better quality signal, more gain, multiple digital inputs exposed if you want to consider using multitrack audio, etc.

                              You also mentioned cable length issues in another reply above, there's another thread (https://support.stagetraxx.com/d/3107-ipad-quality/8) in these forums where there is a discussion about USB repeater cables to also solve for this.

                                  • Damir

                                    • Post #11

                                    ginacc My biggest issue with not being able to use a longer cable is that we're playing large venues where the house inputs are sometimes up to 40 feet from where my Host iPad has to be (it lives next to the drummer so he can be in control of stopping the set if necessary.) I see no way around the distance issue. He can't control the iPad if it's living by the House inputs. The drummer uses an Airturn foot pedal to control, but he still needs to be able to see and reach the device.

                                    In that case the simplest answer is get a small sub mixer that mounts under the iPad , iPad output in to mixer input, now you will have high clean balanced line level out that can feed the distant front house mixer , also now the drummer has instant control of backing level incase the backstage audio engineer is chatting up the chicks, if you get a small gig where you don’t have a front house mixer you can use this mixer to do your own full mix as well , something like an Alan heath 12 or 18T will easily do a normal size band and it’s not big where it could sit under the iPad for easy tweak by drummer.
                                    That’s what I would do in your situation as that completes the band needs and is always with us and has lots of benefits , you can also record the whole show with one button push in multitrack mode for easy later editing.
                                    Technology is getting more useful day by day.

                                        8 days later

                                        AnthonyB We are already using the lightning port out to our Midi device to control the video. Can't send the audio out that direction as well. We've thought all this through.

                                            Damir We really don't do small gigs so I'm not so worried about preparing for that situation. It's all mid-size clubs and theaters. I have considered getting a small mixer that lives with the ipad rack, but I'm not sure it's worth the investment just for this one single issue. I feel like people would just end up telling me that my cables going from that mixer to the FOH are too long. The distance is not a problem I can solve. Is a 50' XLR going from the mixer going to be any better than the 50' XLR going from the DI box? Doesn't seem like it, and I'm afraid of adding any more failure points. Our shows are a big production and I'm managing most of the tech details by myself as I'm the band owner/manager/lead singer/instrumentalist and the one person really invested in producing the show. The more tech I add, the more I have to worry about. I just need more volume out of this ipad.

                                                ginacc the easiest way is to run your ipad through an external DAC From the iPad using USB to the DAC this will clean your music up, lift the volume , and you'll have a choice of outputs . optical. usb, coax, Bluetooth, and stereo leads , this is the way i use it ,my ipad to the DAC, BLUETOOTH, then to my digital mixer using just stereo leads , the mixer XLRS to my powered speakers and monitors total power i run is 4000 watts ,and its as quite has a mouse🙂

                                                  ginacc Maybe you need to consider whether there is a different option for the video then, as you are pretty much dead in the water on your Audio output problem if you stick with the headphone output.

                                                      AnthonyB I don't see how their would be another option. ST3 is controlling the video through MIDI timecode running to Visibox, which is why it needs to go out the lightning port. I have considered upgrading to a newer iPad with the USB-c out so I can use a dongle and just go straight USB to the mixer, but I just feel like I'd be biting off a chunk of potential issues. What we have right now is working, aside from the volume issues.

                                                        ginacc The output level of ST3 should be easily compensated by any large venue mixers that have a sound engineer that knows their job,
                                                        The issue is how far does your unbalanced signal need to run to either the di box which converts the signal to a balanced output to travel longer distance , as I said instead of needing a DI box use a little mixer which also gives you balanced output at standard line level to feed to any venue, plus it gives you some on stage control to turn up or down your backing track easily without needing to bother the venue’s operator if they aren’t on the ball, either way you need to have your own DI box , a mixer or a digital interface to give the venue a standard balanced out signal , as I said before the volume of ST3 is handled by the trim pot of your main mixers output and should not be an issue.
                                                        It definitely has not been an issue by a lot of users it’s your choice how you want to simplify it , I also am or was in your shoes for years in my band and know exactly what you are trying to achieve but I also am an electronic technician and a sound engineer as my bread and butter jobs, my favourite saying has always been keep it simple 😂

                                                        Just another thought!
                                                        Are all your songs recorded at the correct levels in the first place or are you using the EQ where you drop levels to EQ bringing down your overall levels on top of the -6db Peter has dropped in the design?