Damir I don't tend to import or export a PDF file unless I'm sure it is correct. But even when I do need to make corrections, it's not hard to make the corrections within the app that I created the PDF file from in the first place. In this case that would be iReal. I don't think it's practical to try to edit PDFs after the fact anyway. That is always a clumsy effort. Also, PDFs are the best way to view chord charts. Text editors don't work well at all for chord charts which is why we need PDF support.

      SoloGuy Absolutely agree. I create my sheets in Sibelius and also make all corrections there if necessary. So no (or very limited) editing of these sheets in Stage Traxx is no problem for this use case.

          peter that’s all nice and good but not all users are software programmers and users of other software that specifically edit a particular file format.

              Damir PDF is the number one standard format for most documents both in business in private areas. So what you say could also account to using Word or Excel. Your argument makes absolutely no sense.

                  peter no argument here i am just pointing out i only use pdf if i have to word if i am creating a document but mostly notepad and simple text cause thats the easiest when dealing with most music software.
                  I'm happy with what i have to use to achieve my on stage needs although i feel that could be slightly improved to make it more easier to edit than introducing new ways of working.

                      Damir Simple text and Notepad for music software? If by that you mean notation software, I'd like to know how you're accomplishing that. How do you input Time Signatures, Key Signatures and repeat signs etc?
                      Incidentally it is not difficult to create PDFs - well, at least not on a Mac. Just hit "Print" and click on "Save to PDF" on the lower left of the mini window. No one is introducing new ways of working, just the inclusion of a particular file format. If peter decides to include PDFs as a supported format, and I hope he does, you are not obligated to use it. Also... "Software programmers"? I'm not one but I have no issues doing normal computer usage procedures like creating PDFs.

                            Just to make a case for the PDF format. This is an example what a typical leadsheet I write looks like:

                            This is one of our own instrumental songs and here in the south of Germany I can give this sheet to any professional musician and they can stand in on a gig without rehearsals even though it is a song they don't know. They just need to read it. It contains all unisono lines, all hits we need to play together and the whole structure of the song.

                            Adding the ability to show sheets like that directly in Stage Traxx will be a huge win in my opinion.

                            SoloGuy sorry guys i dint mean to step on toes what i meant to say ST3 does a great job for backing tracks with lyrics and chords and thats it.
                            If you need page turns of full on music notation there are plenty of page turners out there my experiance is who ever needs a backing track is normally a small band or a solo musician and most of us play our instruments without needing precise notation which was created for people that didnt have natural musical ability and wanted to play an instrument, and for those musicians playing in orchestras that played very complicated and long music pices and found it impossible to remember everything perfectly unless they were a genius.
                            I dont se ST3 being used by orchestras for page turners that is not what this software was designed for and as i said there are a number of software packages that already do that.
                            I believe more fine tuning is reguired on the software as it is, before adding something new that really isnt new.
                            I know why you want this feature on ST3 and i dont blame you because the same principle of operation in pdf page turner would be fantastic compared to other not so logical operating software out there but its not what ST3 was designed for.
                            Perhaps Peter could create a brilliant PT3, Page Traxx 3 specifically designed for this using the same overall principal but aimed at that job specifically, i recon he would do a briliant job, i think a lot of people would leave the over complicated On Song etc in a flash.
                            Just thinking out loud stay safe.
                            Oh dont forgrt LT3 Loop Traxx 3

                                Damir Wow! Talk about some sweeping generalizations. I too mostly play music naturally by ear but some pieces require a road map and some basic hints on what's about to come. Charts such as what @peter posted above are exactly what a lot of us use and need when the piece of music requires it. You don't have to be an orchestra player to have a need for such a basic chord chart. In fact, orchestra players would likely not know what to do with such a chart. I'm not the worlds greatest sight reader but these charts help a LOT especially when the piece of music is unfamiliar and/or you hadn't heard it before - you can still play it by following the chart!
                                I wish I had the time to improve my music reading capabilities because it makes learning new songs that much easier. After I've internalized the song, I can use my ears to imbue my personal take on the piece as I'm playing it. As it is and as I'm sure it's what you have to do too, I have to listen to the piece carefully to learn it - highly inefficient. And sometimes it's not always easy to hear exactly what's going on - what specific chord or note it is that's being played. Even though a lot of chord charts that are available are usually full of errors, it often leads me to the correct way of playing it by trusting my ears when I hear something wrong.

                                    SoloGuy

                                    SoloGuy Hi SoloGuy, I get your needs and yes there are apps that can help you achieve exactly what you want here is one I use when I can’t reproduce closely a solo that’s complicated

                                    ST3 is simply an on Stage backing player that’s its main job and it does it the best so far from any other software apps, and I think I’ve tried them all some twice but still they don’t do the exact job I require on stage like ST3,
                                    There are many needs people have for various reasons to use an app to help them the one I have suggested for you sounds like it will do exactly what you need, if I wanted a page turner app I would not be using ST3 there are many out there that do that specific job that you can load a backing track and rehearse with it, ST3 is the app designed for the stage it assumes you are ready to perform and need a backing track with lyrics and chord presented for you as an extra luxury.
                                    So in my opinion this being the only app that does this job well I don’t think it should get bloated with stuff other apps already do well.
                                    I would rather that it further develops features that would really make it advance even more on stage as a backing tool.
                                    As I have pointed out a number of times most apps that do this job they are all the same they play a song from beginning to end and that’s it.
                                    As I play the same venues repeatedly I generally also play to the same audience in my city of Adelaide no matter how good my backing tracks are produced and sound it gets boring not just to me but to my audience as it’s exactly the same every time.
                                    If I had LOOPING on the other hand I could vary my performances on the run creating more interesting performances i would have the flexibility to do unexpected changes on the run in my show this is something that is an on stage need that would really make the difference, a perfect solo is not going to greatly improve my performance.
                                    I can think of many other features that would benefit ST3 users more.
                                    I would rather have a capability to place jpg photos behind my lyrics on my client screen so I can show them to my audience on a big screen so they can sing along, or some other more on stage related feature.
                                    I don’t disagree with your needs I just think there are more beneficial ones that ST3 requires to have to stay way in front and keep up with the times.
                                    Cheers Damir and Stay safe

                                          Damir Dude, you are seriously jumping to a lot of conclusions about me and what I need. Quite presumptuous.

                                              SoloGuy I have to listen to the piece carefully to learn it - highly inefficient. And sometimes it's not always easy to hear exactly what's going on - what specific chord or note it is that's being played. Even though a lot of chord charts that are available are usually full of errors, it often leads me to the correct way of playing it by trusting my ears when I hear something wrong.

                                              I was just responding to what u wrote and thought this software might help you as it was designed for learning songs and it works very well, if it’s not what you need fine no harm done, we all have different needs.

                                                  Damir Why would I use yet another piece of software when a dead simple PDF does the trick?

                                                    @"SoloGuy"#p4782i am sorry but i am trying very hard to understand to why and how you are planing to use this on ST3 perhaps if you explain in detail of what and how this is going to help you i might totaly agree with you.
                                                    The way i see an A4 paper sized pdf file is once you load it in to ST3 and shrink it down in the lyrics display so you can see it fully from left to right it would shrink to a point where you would not be able to see the fine notation detail and you would not see the bottom of the page if you did use a larger device like a 12.5 inch ipad you might get away with it but you would still need to scroll through your page.
                                                    This feature on a small device like an iphone you can just forget about anyway and thats ok.
                                                    If you plan to have the full benefit of this then perhaps if you have a 12.5 inch ipad client and select show local lyrics which i didnt understand till Peter explained to me recently yes you could then use this.
                                                    But as a stand alone ipad even a 12.5 inch good luck.
                                                    How many people would actually use this sucessfully is also questionable.
                                                    There are a lot more simple users out there than professionals that have a specific need, but i am still very keen to hear how exactly this pdf proposal is meant to work i have 47years of musical bacground i am a sound engeener, electronic technician of 40 years but am allways keen to learn better ways to do things and appreciate all feedback positive and especially negative because without the negative you dont learn quickly.

                                                      Damir lol I and a ton of other people (including @peter , I believe) use PDFs very successfully on iPads. I'm just forced to have to use them on a different app (ForeScore) because they are not currently supported in ST3. And I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this to you. I'm also not sure what you're talking about when you say "Shrinking down" Nothing is shrunken down in ForeScore, I can read everything perfectly well in it but it's just a much clunkier and sometimes unresponsive app than ST3. Why are you bringing up lyrics? We don't need PDFs for lyrics, we need them for chord charts and lead sheets. For lyrics ST3 already has Placeholders. What in the world are you talking about? You seem to have completely lost track of the subject at hand. Either that or you're intentionally trying to divert the conversation. Ugh!

                                                        @"SoloGuy"#p4785Heres an example of a PDF on an iPhone using the ST3 interface, I have 20/20 vision but I could not use this from a meter away and the iPad Pro 10.5 inch would not be that much better, perhaps a 12.5 inch could do the job for those with great vision.


                                                        Portrait mode

                                                        Lanscape mode

                                                        Damir, I think you try really hard to find edge cases which make absolutely no sense! No one in his right mind would use an iPhone for that! Why do you insist so hard on great visuals on an iPhone, also with plain lyrics? Using the iPhone is a way to have an emergency failover device available. I will not invest time into complicated optimizarions for that! Anyone who is serious about it uses primarily an iPad and readability of PDF sheets (and lyrics) on iPads is great. I've been using PDF files on stage for the last 10 years and love it.

                                                        And regarding the use of PDFs: You truly don't understand how people like me and @SoloGuy use PDFs on stage. But that's fine, you don't need to. You have your workflow which is great. But don't assume that everyone works the same way as you do. Different users have different needs. Not every function that Stage Traxx has needs to make sense to you, but believe me, every function that has been added in the last couple of years was requested by actual users of the app!

                                                        That said, I have made up my mind and version 3.5 will definitely focus on PDF files. So I think we can close this discussion.

                                                          peter No worries Peter I am looking forward to the new addition as it might give me new way of operating my main poin was I thought you would not be able to read the fine detail say a meter away I have created a mock up in 10.5 inch and this is what I got perhaps with a bit of fiddling and moving a bit closer it will work for some that really require notation I am of Croatian background and don’t give in easily, I do hope the other things I have pointed out get fixed first thoug.
                                                          Here is a photo of ST3 with A4 PDFs in both directions as you can see the lyrics behind are around 50pt and they are very easy to see but I do understand notation is also a requirement.
                                                          The end


                                                            As was posted earlier, the above is the type that is most commonly used. Not the examples you posted @Damir
                                                            I too am done with this subject.

                                                              SoloGuy as i dont use pdf notation i just grabbed the first thing i culd find on the net.The quality wasnt the issue it was the size i was concerned with otherwise no problem.In my case it would be a lot smaller as well because i allways have my songs list on the side which greatly reduces the lyrics screen.
                                                              Stay safe mate