Time Sync of lyrics

Lishy

DaveT this wouldn’t really work as it would affect the lines that are on time. After I do it I have listen through with the track and just make a note of any that might be out and adjust the time stamp accordingly.

peter

Just use the offset tag to move all timestamps a bit in the direction you need: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/lyrics/#time-coding-lyrics

Damir

peter Just use the offset tag to move all timestamps a bit in the direction you need: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/lyrics/#time-coding-lyrics

Sorry Peter but the time code offset does not work as far as I can tell that's why I never used it , just now I tried it again and nothing happens , there is no time difference that occurs when I set an offset of 10 seconds or a small offset of 30 frames , it just does nothing to the time coded lyric lines.

Perhaps I am using it wrong , can you explain exactly how I should enter an early time change of a second so I can enter it correctly in the offset window. So all my timecodes happen one second earlier as I want the line movement to happen before I need to read the lines , as it is very disruptive to be reading on this movement.
As I said earlier when entering time code on the beat the movement of lines should happen before the timecode selection , so there is no distraction and the line is set for you perfectly at the actual timestamp.

Feedback, even if it all worked as expected we don't need hours and minutes of offset so why have them displayed to make it more awkward to set an offset timecode.
In the instructions it says we can set a - timecode, How do you do that ? it is not clear at all and I still haven't figured it out.
So I managed to change the offset to 10 seconds on a particular song just to see how this works, still nothing, no time offset happening.
Am I using this feature correctly?
Is the time offset only happening as I enter timecode?
If so, how do I figure out what time offset I need to program before I start time stamping the song, this does not make sense.
Anyway that's what I have been experiencing trying to correct my exact time stamping process, the only thing I found works the best is if I hit my timestamps on the AND just before the first beat, this then creates a smoother change from line to line reading.
Hope you can answer some of the questions.
Cheers Damir

peter

The tag works. But remember it is specified in milliseconds. So 10 Seconds would be a value of 10000.

Damir

peter The tag works. But remember it is specified in milliseconds. So 10 Seconds would be a value of 10000.
Is this setting meant to offset the time codes of synced lyrics ?
How do you offset the time codes in both directions? Forward and backward.
I cant offset any time codes in any direction.
Is this for midi time codes only, and not for synced lyrics?

peter

Wrong offset. That's only for MIDI Timecode messages so that it is possible to sync up multiple songs by giving each song a unique start time.

I already posted the documentation for the offset tag: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/lyrics/#time-coding-lyrics

Damir

peter Wrong offset. That's only for MIDI Timecode messages so that it is possible to sync up multiple songs by giving each song a unique start time.

AHHHHH! thanks Peter,the penny has dropped, Ive been barking up the wrong tree all these years, bummer.
Why would you not have this offset similar to MIDI offset , in actual fact i would have it as a pan fader option that is central and can be shifted left or right by a value not exceeding 1 minute as its pointless , this way its an easy to setup and makes perfect sense , instead of a computer nerd method of having to know a non logical numeric numbering system and having to write a word within a bracket that can be put anywhere on the busy lyrics page so when you have to re tweak it to perfection its hard to find and is fiddly to setup correctly, and you definitely have to read the instruction manual that takes you years to realise of how it actually works.
I am making a very simple point.
I don't like it at all, when it could be very simple and easy.
I hope ST4 improves this useful feature.
I would do the same for MIDI offset users.
I have just thought about it and can see a potential problem, unless you have thought of it and made it work,
Normally if you hit your time codes on the note you will get a line movement on this timecode which is too late so you have to put in an early movement so your line is in place earlier , by placing an offset would activate this early movement, does that mean when you hit an immediate audio start at the beginning of song it will delay the start by this offset , or have you made it so the immediate start will start the audio immediately and then it will shift the lyric lines early as setup in the offset?
Just a thought as i have not tried this offset feature yet because i did not know how to use it, and all my synced lyrics have been programmed manually by me on the run as i would trigger the timecode button on the AND before the First beat to make the lyrics movement more logical.

peter

It was a design decision. I thought that tag would be used to adjust timing of imported lyrics. A tag makes sense in that case. And I don't like multiple places to store the same value. That's why it stayed in lyrics.

Damir

peter It was a design decision. I thought that tag would be used to adjust timing of imported lyrics. A tag makes sense in that case. And I don't like multiple places to store the same value. That's why it stayed in lyrics.

I agree with you I also hate multiple places to get one job done, my view is I don’t need to see offset tag in lyrics , I rather just have a slider that allows me to easily tweak this setting and a double tap resets it to zero, much like a pan slider that either delays or forwards all time codes to perfect a line change movement , this to be an option fader in song details, and this similar to fade in/out fader or Pitch/Speed fader, this then keeps everything neat in one place and no complicated data entry in lyrics edit which is complicated as is specially if you also use midi commands and colour changes etc.
This area is busy enough.

Damir

peter It was a design decision.

After a bit of thought on TIME CODE OFFSET i will open a new discussion on it as it needs help desperately.

peter

Damir No need, I will not change that as users are used to the way it works. You not knowing that this feature exists does not change the fact, that this is already used by many other users.

A slider will not work as the necessary value range is too big. Some might need to nudge it only a couple of milliseconds while some might need to move it by 20 or 30 seconds (for example after changing the length of the playback). That can only be accomplished with the current implementation.

Damir

peter yes its a can of worms, i already came to that conclusion after using it as intended, in a way i am glad i didn't discover it as my method is much faster once you get use to syncing off beat as it then allows me to have some things syncing on the beat, and i don't have to guess and enter more data in to the lyrics editor.
I think i will just stick with it the way i have been using it as it hasn't really given me any problems through the years , i just thought perhaps its better to use the on board feature but its not.
Thanks

DaveT

Can I make another suggestion then??? hotkey/key combination to jump back x amount of seconds whilst inputting the lyrics -- that way, if you miss the cue, you can hit the key and jump back 4 or 5 seconds quickly to attempt another hit of the time sync? Could also be combined with CMD+Z to delete the misplaced time sync?? Must admit, I use Karibener to map my spare function keys to TIME SYNC, PLAY/PAUSE, TEXT RED, TEXT BLUE, TEXT ORANGE, TEXT PINK, so could easily map two others to JUMP BACK, and JUMP BACK with UNDO. would speed up the editing process immensely, as any mistake means hitting stop, moving the slider back, hitting play, then inserting the time sync again etc etc , a simple jump back would allow (almost like looping) of a section to listen over and over, and when ready and sure of the position, just drop the time sync in

Damir

DaveT Can I make another suggestion then??? hotkey/key combination to jump back x amount of seconds whilst inputting the lyrics -- that way, if you miss the cue, you can hit the key and jump back 4 or 5 seconds quickly to attempt another hit of the time sync? Could also be combined with CMD+Z to delete the misplaced time sync

Why use hot keys when a simple undo would do the same job to help to speed up a bad timecode?
There use to be an undo function on my iPad keyboard but now it’s not there, is it a possible setting within the operating system that’s hidden this very useful function ?
Yes I agree it would be nice to have an undo function as well as a certain time preset prior to last undo timecode point that was undone , like 4 seconds to 10 seconds.
So all you do when a mistake was made is hit undo and play to timestamp again the last undo point that has also given you a convenient run in time to get your timing perfect.

peter

I still have it on my on screen keyboard. But you can 3 finger tap to get a menu on top of the screen with undo and more. No idea why Apple switched to this new method.

Damir

peter I still have it on my on screen keyboard. But you can 3 finger tap to get a menu on top of the screen with undo and more. No idea why Apple switched to this new method.

It’s not obvious and it’s too slow, we need one obvious undo button that gets rid of the last timecode and automatically sets the replay a few seconds before this timecode so we can just hit undo and play and continue tapping in the time codes without having to stuff around after every bad entry.
I would also make this multiple undo so if you need to go back 5 time codes you hit undo 5 times and the same time offset is applied for every undo hit, this way if you happened to hit extra time codes after the mistake you can work back by a few hits and then hit start to keep working.
This is efficient and very time saving when entering an awkward song.
As we all know some song lyrics are very easy than one comes along that gives you the absolute shits.
This method would still make it simple and easy.

DaveT

Guys -- just to be aware, as I stated in my post im using key combinations -- this is on OSX, not iOS that im on about

Thanks

Dave

Damir

DaveT yes Dave i was assuming you were on the OSX but this issue was raised years ago and its still a thorn in my foot 😂 it could be and should be fast and simple as entering time codes is so time consuming on all devices, short cut keys are just a cop out and very useful when no other options are available on very complicated software put there for professionals that use the software constantly, we are musicians first and computer programmers second or perhaps i should say last, so learning hundreds of shortcut keys for all the software we need to know is just too much, we need buttons in our face and an operating surface that needs no instruction manuals.
Then we have a very useful tool to work with.
Thats why ST3 is so liked by everyone , lets not make it like the rest lets make it the best !🤪