Errors Loading Multitrack Files

Riff

Since updating to 3.8, I'm running into an issue with some of my tracks giving me an error when I try to attach add them into a multitrack. I'm not doing anything different: exported from Ableton and replaygain added in Foobar2000. Sometimes I will change pitch using Audacity, but I've gotten this error on files that I haven't changed pitch, so I don't think Audacity has anything to do with it. The files themselves are between 2 and 4 MB mp3s. I've also used an mp3 checker to see if the files were corrupted somehow. They play fine on my pc, and also if I open one on my ipad it automatically creates a new song in ST3 and it plays fine. I am stumped!

I get one of these two errors, or sometimes both.

Riff

Other files from the same songs will load perfectly. eg: The click or the keys won't load, but I can get drums, bass, and cues to. Some files from my batch exports or adjustments work fine, others I get the errors. Never had an issue before the upgrade, but I'm not saying that is the issue either.

It's probably something simple, and Google hasn't been any help for me.

peter

I have never seen this error "Volume is too large". But it looks like your file is too hot. Try to reduce the gain on the file and reimport it.

Riff

Ok, I think I've found the error. When adding tracks the ReplayGain tag is now being used as the track volume on the Configure Multitrack Playback (Multitrack Setup) page. This never used to happen. All tracks were defaulted to a volume of 0.0dB.

I've looked back at songs that were already loaded with higher ReplayGain settings, no issues at all; all volumes defaulted to 0.0dB.

peter

You are right. It is caused by the replay gain value in your file. I will add a safe guard in version 3.8.2 that will limit the maximum volume to +6dB when setting the replay gain volume. In the meantime, just remove the replaygain tag from that file.

Riff

peter If ReplayGain is supposed to adjust the volume setting from 0.0db, does that mean that all of my other songs that were previously added (over 1300 files for 240 songs) are not using the ReplayGain tag at all since they're all set to 0.0db on the Multitrack Setup page?

Riff

New Song:

Older Song:

peter

All multitrack files loaded before version 3.8 did not use the ReplayGain value. The value is only read when you import a track.

Riff

I must be doing something wrong because the results I'm getting from using the default settings in foobar2000 are giving me large dB increases, sometimes well above ST3's +6dB limit.

I'm not adjusting volumes at all with my tracks coming out of Ableton. Tracks downloaded from Karaoke-Version and brought into Ableton to add cues, and then exported.

I was using this thread as a guide: https://support.stagetraxx.com/d/157-volume-normalisation

Unless I figure out what I'm doing wrong, I'm going to have to remove the tag from my tracks.

peter

In my opinion ReplayGain on multitrack files in nonsense. That's why I only added it recently due to popular demand. But I want to play the tracks exactly in the volume that I bounce them from the DAW. That way I can be sure that the mix is the way I expect it to be just by having the volume slider at 0dB for every track.

I think ReplayGain only makes sense to normalize the volume between different songs. Never ever between different tracks.

And the reason why you have so much ReplayGain boost is that single tracks have a very low average loudness compared to mastered songs and therefore ReplayGain tries to boost them so much.

SignalProducer

My advice for those who use multitracks and want very similar volume for different songs:

In your DAW put Loudness meter plugin on a Master channel
Mute Click+Cues (if you have any, because audience don't hear it anyway), Mute Lead Vocal (to balance all instruments and background vocals, you will not export lead vocals anyway, I suppose)
On your Loudness meter plugin set LUFS Integrated target to one number and stick to it for all songs
Let the song play from start to finish and check LUFS Integrated number.
Adjust levels on all tracks by the same number, repeat step 5
Group similar instruments, if you have more than 8 tracks in a project
Unmute Click+Cue
Select 8 tracks and press Export -> Selected Tracks Only (Master bus is not in use in that case)
In ST3 mute all tracks that you need to (if you are playing with drummer or guitarist, for example)

Side note:
You can use any free Loudness Meters plugins (just google it) and check only Integrated volume. Some plugins let you import a song and give you all important numbers in a few seconds (rather than playing the whole song).

Internal sound engine in ST3 lowers volume by 6dB to avoid any clipping. Bear that in mind.

Popular music streaming services accept songs with -13/-14 LUFS Integrated, so you can stick to that number.

So if your target is -13 LUFS Integrated and your plugin is showing -10.9 LUFS after playing the song from start to finish - you need to lower the volume on all tracks (drums, bass, guitars, etc.) by the same number, - 2.1 dB in this case. Repeat step 5. I can't stress this enough - let the song play from start to finish.

Repeat this process for all songs in your library. This is similar to MP3Gain, but manually - because we are using multitracks.

Yes, It's a lot of work, but it is worth it.

Damir

SignalProducer thanks for this it’s good stuff to know and keep in mind, I should do this but I just use my ears to roughly get there and a small tweak in ST3 if needed to balance things but to keep things simple later I agree totally with your suggestion do the hard work at home to make things easy on stage.

radiostar

Hey Peter, what about having the ability to run Youlean as a plugin with stage track ?

SuperBisDak

radiostar I have the youlean in my master effect, works perfectly.

peter

Only supported plugin format is AUv3 and only on iOS. But if you find an AUv3 meter plugin you can already make use of it by inserting it as a master effect.

radiostar

peter oh awesome, I didn't know this. thanks so much