ICLOUD SYNC LOGIC

Damir

Hi Peter, as i fired up my performing ipad , and updated to latest BETA, i needed to load the full backup to get everything working properly on the ipad i noticed as i hit the approve button restore full backup that ICLOUD WAS STILL ON, now to me thats not what i wanted , i only wanted my ipad to be fully restored and not the ICloud, i believe whenever you fully restore a device ICLOUD SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY DISABLED and allow the user to determine when to update the ICLOUD. i have multiple devices sharing the same account i use them in different ways and use icloud as a great way to sync , BUT I WANT THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE WHEN A DEVICE IS TO BE ACTIVATED TO I CLOUD , I DONT WANT THE DEVICE TO DICTATE HOW I SHOULD RUN.
You can easily forget that you are synced to icloud and if you use full backup to restore on any device can severely change your whole icloud , i would rather have to choose icloud after a full backup as a means of insuring that an accidental full backup is going to immediately take affect and possibly stuff everything up.
As i have just picked up my device without spending any time to double check anything i hope i am not talking shit so please correct me if im wrong in my assumptions 😀

peter

I disagree. When iCloud is on and I want to restore a backup I want all devices on iCloud to be restored to that backup. Actually this is the best way to resolve syncing issues.

Damir

peter I disagree. When iCloud is on and I want to restore a backup I want all devices on iCloud to be restored to that backup. Actually this is the best way to resolve syncing issues.

That’s one way to look at it , but my thinking is not everyone wants an immediate iCloud sync, people with multiple backups should have the opportunity to check their full restore first to make sure they have the correct full backup, they might just want to only update this backup and save it back to the hard drive without upsetting their whole iCloud, it’s basically a safety thing as well, if you accidentally restore a full backup there is no turning back but if you had a safety mechanism like the iCloud is OFF you can then make the observation of your mistake and then choose at a time that suits you to restore the iCloud, the end result is the same as what you have given us but it has numerous advantages if you don’t immediately sync to iCloud and allow us the user to double check everything and perhaps add new stuff to the new update before introducing the new iCloud sync.
The two end up the same but one method gives more safety and flexibility.

peter

Switching iCloud selectively on and off can lead to catastrophic failures. I would very strongly advice against it!!!

Example: You want to try a backup, so you disable iCloud and restore that backup. Now you decide you don't like that and want to go back to iCloud so you delete all your songs and rejoin iCloud. Result: Everything in iCloud is deleted because everything you do after you have joined iCloud is tracked and replayed once you are back in iCloud. That's how iCloud works and I have no means to change that.

So if you really want to test things while not affecting iCloud the only way to do that is to reinstall the app.

Bottom line: If you leave iCloud, make it a habit to reinstall the app before joining iCloud again.

Damir

peter sorry Peter I read this message after I wrote about ICloud, so just ignore it , I will persevere with how it is as I just started fiddling, I have a gig coming up so I will be preparing for that ,
Cheers

Damir

peter Example: You want to try a backup, so you disable iCloud and restore that backup. Now you decide you don't like that and want to go back to iCloud so you delete all your songs and rejoin iCloud. Result: Everything in iCloud is deleted because everything you do after you have joined iCloud is tracked and replayed once you are back in iCloud. That's how iCloud works and I have no means to change that.

So to correctly setup ICloud on multiple devices , we should clear all songs on all devices, turn on iCloud on all devices load a full backup on one device and wait till all devices sync up.
From then on don’t turn off iCloud sync on any device or else you will end up with a time consuming problem.

I will give that a try now that I have all 3 devices near each other.
Cheers

peter

Actually, you don't need to clear the first device where you enable iCloud. On all other devices you will get the least possibility for problems if you reinstall the app before joining iCloud.

Damir

peter Thanks 👍

davedroug

peter so how do you go on if your Icloud is full and you've only got half your songs on there anyway ?????

davedroug

peter so how do you go on if your Icloud is full and you've only got half your songs on there anyway ????? i only do my backup in my ipad and use iCloud just for adding new songs and i save all my backups to an external hard drive via iTunes

Damir

davedroug so how do you go on if your Icloud is full and you've only got half your songs on there anyway ?????

I am not actually using iCloud for live performing at the moment as I am only BETA testing it, I personally don’t like relying on any CLOUD I also have my backups standing by on all my devices that are identical, all I want from iCloud is to be able to prep my gigs on any device and have them all update, once they are all updated I make a new full backup again,
I will never rely on using any cloud based service while having to perform that’s why I am also not happy that I can’t easily turn off iCloud when performing and just turn it on when I am prepping my gigs, it seems Apple is fixed in their mindset to do what they want and not what the customer actually wants and is willing to pay for , but can’t get, I have 200 gig iCloud but I’m still not getting the service I expect from it, due to lack of understanding of customer needs.
I shall see what iCloud gives me in a few weeks I will either praise it or I will bitch like hell 😂 to Apple I am also not happy with their calendar and notepad, if only they had Peter in charge of their development team.

peter

Well either delete something else in iCloud or upgrade your iCloud account. 50gig cost 1$ per month and should get you a long way.

davedroug

peter no way am i paying apple for icloud .you pay enough for the units should all be free, plus i don.t like the iso on apple pain in the bum do all my music on windows,can't even delete a file from icloud from my computer without deleting from cloud on my ipad first easiest way for me is just don.t upgrade Stagetraxx works fine for me as it is 🙂

peter

Of course, the iCloud sync is in no way mandatory. You do not need to use the feature if you don't want to. You can still use all the other features in version 3.7 and onward.

JohnnySolo

Hey Damir - what about just turning off your internet access while at a gig? That should disable the iCloud until you reconnect. Just a thought.

Damir

JohnnySolo Hey Damir - what about just turning off your internet access while at a gig? That should disable the iCloud until you reconnect. Just a thought.

Thanks Johnny , i already always turn off my wifi to save power as i normally use iPad battery unless its a really long gig.What i would like to know is exact logic behind icloud, if it looses connection to device is that not like turning off and on the icloud connection, if not why not, does that mean if you use the icloud on/off it sends a special command to fully resync, all these things are very unclear and i cant work out the exact logic behind icloud so i can come up with my own method to use icloud. Everything with icloud is an assumption which turns out to be wrong because its not the way apple works, HOW DOES ICLOUD WORK EXACTLY? So i can then use it to my advantage.
Nobody seems to know.
I wonder if apple knows.
I will persevere until i fully understand its behaviour, so i can make it work for me.
Thanks Again.

davedroug

Damir i don't need cloud to sync ,i make sure all my tracks are perfectly balanced, all the lyric run correctly all the midi triggers work as they should and i use wifi for connecting the host etc ,i never mess with the setting on ipad while I'm out playing never had the need to ,and because i only add one new song at a time and thats not often, i do all the track balancing ,lyrics and midi on daw ,so just have to download from cloud 1 song and 1 lyrics added to my songs database on ipad ,press play and away i go, so thats it for me stagetraxx is just a player that shows my lyrics i don't use playlist. just the song list so i can scroll up or down and just pick any song i fancy playing simple but fast and affective way to play live

peter

From the moment when you turn on Cloud Sync. Every single change in your local database is recorded and sent to the Cloud when Internet is available. When you turn off Cloud Sync every change is still recorded but only sent to the cloud when you turn the sync on again.

If you are interested in the details, here is the official documentation: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coredata/mirroring_a_core_data_store_with_cloudkit

Damir

davedroug thanks Dave i also do everything very similar as you , i do all the work on Daw and use ST3 as an on stage player but it’s the first time setup of ST3 Beta that has not worked for me while testing regarding iCloud and syncing 3 devices, I never use Beta on stage and I don’t update to latest release straight away until it has proven itself with users for a week or two as that’s when true testing gets done, I just came back from holidays and did not realise Beta was not used anymore normally you can’t download it when it ends but I did manage to reinstall it so I assumed it was still being used.
I also noticed the updated version of Beta is in use already and my devices have automatically updated to it so now I’m a bit nervous in using it first time this weekend , I will not be touching iCloud till after the gig just incase it upsets my devices.
But according to others it seems to be OK.
Time will tell as I seem to have a talent of stumbling on bugs .
Thanks for the reply
Cheers Damir