vocal cue on last loop

xgryd

Hi all,

i'm exploring stagetraxx4 and it looks amazing. However i might be missing one feature to be able to call it "perfect".
If i'm looping a section and i kill the loop with my midi controller live (so the loop will not replay). I would like that to be the last loop AND have a distinc vocal cue with a countdown only on the last loop.

Is there a way to make ONLY that last loop have a certain vocal cue?
Me and my band use IEM and we want to be able to exit a loop fast but still receive a vocal cue only in the final bar.
Only way i see now is to implement a loop and then after exiting, add one last loop with a cue.
But that requires an extra section after the loop. This makes it hard to do live on stage and match it to a singers interaction with audience (as there is always one more bar).

Is there perhaps a way to do it all inside the last loop?
I was thinking that adding 2 different tracks and muting one + at the same time unmuting the other might work, but as far as i know this isn't yet supported.

Thanks in advance!

AnthonyB

Short answer - Yes, but not easily.
This exact topic has been bounced around previously so it's not an unknown scenario.

The only (current) solution, as you suggested, would be to have 2 variants of your Cues track and use external MIDI control to mute/unmute the one you want to use at the time.

You can do that with external MIDI trigger/control as the Assign Actions (https://stagetraxx.com/docs/v4/remote-control/#assign-actions) does include the ability to trigger Mute Groups and Mute toggle on individual tracks (@peter - please document the full list of assignable actions for easy discovery and reference! 🙂 )

What you cannot do is automate that from within ST, as you cannot control ST, from ST, via MIDI. This is done to prevent MIDI loopback issues which would inevitably occur in many situations.

xgryd

AnthonyB thank you for your reply. It's good to know that it might be possible, but as i understand it this would require 2 midi commands at the same time, right? (Mute track A + unmute track B) Is this possible?

Can you map both these commands to fire at the same time? With one midi button press? Right know i'm using a joyo-sp1 controller. I doubt this would work as it's a bluetooth connector more than a midi device?

Thanks so much for your help

MusicMan81

xgryd Is tricky to do with the Joyo pedal. Because ST4 don’t allow you to assign the same midi function to more than 1 button.

But, there’s a workaround. I was working with another app, that has an amazing function and is a “intelligent cue” so once you split your audio regions, the cue will automatically name them, and if you loop any region “Chorus” for example, the cue will be saying chorus all the time until you take out the loop and will cue the next audio regions.

I got very used to it, so what I came up with was, duplicate the cue track, move all the cues to the next section, and with the morningstar midi controller you can assign multiple midi commands to the same foot switch so the looper foot switch, triggers 3 functions. Loop, Mute normal cue, Unmute loop cue”

So if you have.

Intro - Verse - Pre - Chorus - Instrumental. As the main cue.

~~Empty~~ - Intro - Verse - Pre - Chorus - Instrumental. As the loop cue.

So when you loop a section, for example, the Chorus, the “loop cue” since is moved to the right, will keep saying chorus instead of instrumental.

Is the only workaround I came up so far, is not hard to do, just move the entire cue track and export 2 of them.

Is not pretty, but works.

xgryd

MusicMan81

That's an interesting idea,

But let's say you're into a chorus -> so you're following the main cue
You press the button, activating the loop + mute main cue + unmute loop clue -> you're now in the next section, but the loop cue replays the previous section in a a loop.

~~1) You can only do this once in a song right? Cause the the loop cue takes over and going back to thebmain cue is not an option?~~

~~2) While it would then be easy to know you are in a loop, this also doesn't really tackle my #1 concern, that is getting a cue when you need to EXIT the loop to advance to the next section.~~

~~Or am i looking at this wrong?~~

~~If the morningstar can do multiple midi commands on 1 button i would rather do the following:~~

~~Make 2 cue tracks: regular and 'final loop'~~

~~Set up sections in ST4~~

~~When inside a section of a song you want to activate for a loop -> press midi button A 'loop' to activate midi command and loop section.~~

~~When you've started the final loop and you want to break out -> press midi button B which does 2 things: mute regular cue + unmute 'final loop' cue~~

If your song has another section this happens in, you can use a 'reset button' ->
When that loop is over, you press a third button C which then again mutes 'final loop' cues and unmute the main cue.

Does this make sense?
I don't think this can be done with the joyoSP but perhaps it can be done with a morningstar.

~~Then i only would need to buttons (and a third reset if there's multiple sections in a song but that's optional and i'd stick to 1 anyway)~~

EDIT: apologies, please ignore my comment above as i only now understand your explained approach so my remarks don't make sense and my suggestion is basically the same.

I guess i can achieve what i want by doing it this way and buying a morningstar so i can program multiple midi commands on 1 button. Can you explain how that works?

MusicMan81

xgryd You don’t need to strictly buy the Morningstar, is quite expensive knowing there’s options on the market that cost less than 100$.

But then, I read the entire Morningstar user manual and is unbelievable the amount of things you can do with it, tbh, after my Quad Cortex, the Morningstar is the best gear I have.

But again, it can be done with the Joyo, you can assign 3 buttons (loop, mute cue, unmute second cue)… the easiest way is with 2 buttons, just “loop and mute the cue tract” the you can unmute it once you want to keep going.

IF… you are interested in getting the Morningstar, I can assure you 200% you won’t regret it, and if so, shout me out, is quite a learning curve and I can help.

xgryd

MusicMan81

I really appreciate your help man!
It would be awesome if i could already make some sort of pilot test with the joyo before buying a midi controller but i don't think i can get it to work withe Joyo.

Joyo has only 2 buttons and most importantly can't send and combine multiple commands. (It's airturn not midi)

I believe your use your example would be:
Button 1: start loop + mute MAIN track + unmute cue track
Button 2: break loop + mute CUE track + unmute main track

Seems to me that you can only do that with midi. Can you confirm? And conform that midi controllers ARE in fact able to chain-send multiple commands? Making this set up possible?

MusicMan81

xgryd Ahhhh ok, I thought it was the Joyo midi pedal, wich has 8 buttons, in Europe is the Harley Benton one, my bad.

Well, you have several midi pedals in the market, and tbh having a midi pedals to control stage Traxx is the way to go.

I decided to go with the Morningstar MC6 Pro when it was released because, compared to other MIDI pedals, you have a screen for each button or function, so you don’t have to guess what each buttton do.

You have 127 Banks.
Each Bank - 4 Scenes
Each Scene 6 buttons (with the MC6) now there’s the new one with 8 and wireless midi.
Each button can send up to 32 midi commands in just 1 press “yes… is crazy”
Each button can behave in multiple ways (press, double tap, triple tap, long press release etc etc) I think is 12-16 different ways? But I try to use only 2 and maybe 3 at the most.

So you end up, with a midi pedal. Small, with 6 buttons, that can be converted in 12-18 if you have each one as (press & double tap) or if you add a 3rd option….

And since for each button, it has a screen where you can edit the name, color etc etc you can just put the name for example ( Prev / Next ). So with just 1 button, you press once and you go to the next audio region, and press twice it would go back…. I separate the in the same name with the “/“ so I know what does the ”press / double tap” do.

Is a bit rabbit hole, you can even connect 4 midi pedals, so I also have the small Ampero stomp, which has just 1 expression pedal, and with this I can connect 1 or 2 more and keep the rig small.

Is really a next level pedal man, “they should be paying me for the advertising lol”

xgryd

ok but one question i would like to get answered before i commit to any midi pedal is:
"can 1 midi pedal button mute track 1 and unmute track 2 at the same time"?
I believe from your answers that this is possible. but i want to be sure before commiting.
Thank you so much though for the help

AnthonyB

xgryd

xgryd "can 1 midi pedal button mute track 1 and unmute track 2 at the same time"?

Yes. But the MIDI controller itself has to support that capability.
Good ones (e.g. Morningstar, Luminite, etc.) will let you assign multiple MIDI commands to a single trigger event (e.g. single press footswitch).