MIDI File not sending out MIDI

MarkGuitar

Hi.
I am now moving forward with setting up our live shows with ST4. All the audio side seems to work just fine so I am now adding in the MIDI control aspects.

Rather than dozens of timecoded midi commands in the lyrics editor, I am wanting to use the Type 0 midi file I have exported from Logic Pro which has all the midi commands in it having set them up on the time line in logic. So much easier to edit etc.

I have added the file to the song in ST4 using Song Info-Details-MIDI File.
I have set the Midi file output port in ST4 using Settings-MIDI Settings-MIDI File Output Port.

The output port is an RTP network midi port. It shows up in ST4 in the list of available midi ports so I assume ST4 can see the port ok. I note there is no way to set the midi channel so I the midi channel used is what is defined in the MIDI file?

I then play the song and nothing is being sent out of the MIDI port. I am using a Mac app called 'MIDI Monitor' to snoop on the midi port and it is showing no traffic. So the pedals etc are not doing anything...

The same setup (including MDID Monitor) from logic works fine and controls the pedals etc.

It would seem that ST4 is not sending anything out of the MIDI port from the MIDI file I have added. I added the same file back in to Logic (after exporting it) and again, the midi events in that file load in to Logic and then work just fine when played.

I attach here the MID file that I am using so @Peter can take a look.

I am doing this on the Mac desktop version of ST4 to avoid the complication of the iPad midi stack etc, but eventually I will want to run this on the iPad.

EDIT:
Have now checked the same setup by sending individual midi commands from within the lyrics. Same commands, channels etc. Same Output port (Session 1). And the commands in the lyrics work fine. But nothing coming out by using the midi file.

Any suggestions @peter

Thanks
Mark

on-the-road-again.mid

790B

peter

It works for me with network midi session and your file:

Keep in mind, the commands in your file start roughly 20 seconds into the song.

MarkGuitar

peter Keep in mind, the commands in your file start roughly 20 seconds into the song.

Ahhh, THIS is the issue.
For some reason there were some 'rogue' midi commands before the start of the actual visible midi file in Logic and they were pushing all the commands forward about 20 seconds. Logic did say about it but I didn't understand what it was meaning and did the wrong thing.
For reference for other users, this is the warning you get when exporting the midi file from Logic if you have this issue.

I selected the default option (top one) which caused the issue. When I selected the second option (Change Upbeat Events) it did the right thing and all the midi commands fired in perfect time.

Thanks for giving me the clue @Peter 🙂

I have now loaded in a file and it works just great. So far I am only sending out controls for one piece of gear on one midi channel. Next test is multiple channels to multiple pieces of gear. Fingers crossed 🙂

Cheers
Mark

AnthonyB

Yeah, depending on your DAW, this is the tricky bit if you aren't exporting from Bar 1, Beat 1 AND/OR don't have a MIDI event on what will be the bar 1, beat 1 of the exported MIDI stem.

That's actually nice that Logic gives you a warning with some action choices. That said... 'upbeat events'? Maybe that makes sense to Logic users but as a non-Logic user, that would make zero sense to me.

Good catch.

I think MIDI 'stem' exporting has a lot of pitfalls, and then you have the varying behaviour of different DAWs to deal with. I think this is a great topic for a Tutorial post. I think more people will adopt this feature in ST4 if they felt confident in exporting a bunch of MIDI tracks in their DAW used to control devices as a single MIDI file.

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB That said... 'upbeat events'? Maybe that makes sense to Logic users but as a non-Logic user, that would make zero sense to me.

Totally fooled me. I just went with the default option which completely the wrong choice...

AnthonyB I think this is a great topic for a Tutorial post.

Yeah, once I have done a few more I will post a step-by-step. Just need to be sure I have found all the wrinkles that Logic throws at us first 🙂

It takes some thinking to get the workflow nailed but once it is done it is way easier than typing in stuff to the lyrics editor. And so far is working great (only done 3 songs....)

AnthonyB

MarkGuitar It takes some thinking to get the workflow nailed but once it is done it is way easier than typing in stuff to the lyrics editor.

Yeah, I planned for this transition last year knowing that ST4 would get this functionality.

I made sure that every song project in my DAW had a full set of MIDI automation tracks and was considered 'the source of truth', while also duplicating the MIDI events in the lyric sheets. My plan was to be in a position to be able to go back and just export the MIDI tracks once the time was right, and I could trust that all the MIDI automation tracks in my DAW were accurate.

While I've tested the concept, I also haven't made the time yet to go back and nail down my 'tested and verified, rinse and repeat' process (I use Cakewalk Sonar as my DAW). Going back and defining Audio Regions took the priority, and my time!

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB
My challenge has been finding a window of time to get all our songs transferred over from Ableton. We gig most every week and the songs 'evolve' in Ableton as things get tweaked. Las thing I wanted was to spend ages moving songs into ST4 only to realise that they had been edited in the meantime 🙁
And finding an efficient workflow for the new way of working has taken some time. Ableton is great for playing back in a live environment but is is very lacking as a DAW for editing & exporting.So I had to find a new DAW; tried Reaper, Studio One, Cubase, Even Pro-Tools. But they all had quirks and limitations that I couldn't live with. Logic ended up being the best fit (for me at least). It isn't perfect but it has the closest match for what I need to do.
So now I just need to get on with it. Eat the Elephant one bite at a time!