widi

davey62

I want to control keyboard patch changes using the ipad and widi jack. It works fine but now I also want to send midi messages to my Line 6 hx stomp using widi jack during the same song track. I entered the proper midi commands and that works also. What do I have to do with the widi app so that the ipad/app sends the messages to two separate widi jacks with the messages to both devices?

Lishy

davey62 from memory set them to force peripheral.

AnthonyB

davey62 You want to create a WIDI Group with all of your WIDI devices.

One device has to be designated the Central device (I'd suggest the device connected to your iPad) while the others become Peripheral devices.

Instructions are here - https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master-start-guide-bluetooth-midi/#tve-jump-1834adc45b6

One tip I've learnt from experience - if you are using the iPad you run ST on to also run the WIDI app to upgrade formware and create the Group, make sure you remember to turn off Bluetooth on the iPad once you are finished.
I spent 15 mins one day at a rehearsal trying to work out why my WIDI devices weren't creating the Group when powered up. I had left BT enabled on my iPad and the WIDI devices re-connected to the iPad 🙂 I'm now super-careful to disable BT on ANY iPads that I bring to my gigs/rehearsals to avoid a repeat!
Or, as the above instructions also mention, you can remove the BT relationship on the iPad after you've set everything up if you need BT on the iPad for other stuff (which I don't).

Lishy

AnthonyB doesn’t sound like he has a Widi device connected to the the iPad and you can’t create one with the iPad as the central device so he’s better off just setting the BLE mode to force peripheral. It’s what I do I my set up for all my Widi devices.

davey62

Lishy

So the keyboard player is currently connecting to a widi jack that is plugged into his keyboard to send midi commands from st3 running from his iPad. I want to also plug in a widi jack into my hx stomp and receive midi commands from st3 in his iPad.

AnthonyB

Ooohh... right. I didn't pick up on that. I assumed there was a CME device connected to the iPad.

Relying on iPad BT for MIDI is a bit of a risk. I'm sure some people will have found it works, but I prefered to avoid it.
Get yourself an CME device to connect to your iPad (which then becomes the Central device). That could be a WIDI Bud Pro that you connect via a USB-A to Lightning/USB-C (depending on your iPad connector), or if you want the option of Wireless AND wored MIDI connections, then something like the H4MIDI WC with the WIDI Core chip added is great.

I use the latter option and just have the H4MIDIWC connected to my iPad via the H4MIDIWC's USB-C port. It gets power and data this way. From there, I have a mix of devices connected via WIDI Masters (Roland SPD-SX PRO and Line 6 Helix LT) and wired MIDI (Hotone Ampero II Stage and Behringer X32 mixer).

Touch wood, but since I setup our CME WIDI stuff, I have never even thought about it again. It just powers on when everyone arrives at gigs/rehearsals and works.

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB I use the latter option and just have the H4MIDIWC connected to my iPad via the H4MIDIWC's USB-C port. It gets power and data this way. From there, I have a mix of devices connected via WIDI Masters (Roland SPD-SX PRO and Line 6 Helix LT) and wired MIDI (Hotone Ampero II Stage and Behringer X32 mixer).

Hey @AnthonyB
Just dipping a toe into the WIDI world. I have to say, the products look great but the docs and videos are not very clear.
Just wanted to check with you what you said above. So the H4MIDI can do both wired and WIDI MIDI? So I can connect the H4 to the iPad (USB-C) and send WIDI MIDI to multiple devices that have a WIDI Master plugged in? I have 3 floor pedals that I need to control.
I will also need to control a CQ18 mixer which will be connected via USB, so not part of the WIDI landscape, just a direct USB connection (the same USB used for the audio from ST4). I assume that also will be OK?

Also, I make that 3 USB connections to the iPad

Mixer
H4
Power

What do you use to get that lot into the USB-C on the iPad?

Just wanted to check before ordering the wrong thing.
Thanks for your help
Mark

AnthonyB

davey62 the keyboard player is currently connecting to a widi jack that is plugged into his keyboard to send midi commands

So, the assumption here is that your keyboard player is just connecting the WIDI Jack plugged into his keyboard to the iPad via Bluetooth (i.e. using iPad Bluetooth).
As @Lishy mentioned, you should be able to just get either a WIDI Master or WIDI Jack (either will work with HX Stomp. I'd go with WIDI Master to remove need for external power supply) and just 'do the same' as your keyboard player. Force the new WIDI Master into peripheral mode.

What I've suggested in my earlier post above is, in my opinion, a better solution as I feel it is more robust and removes risk by removing the use of iPad Bluetooth.

AnthonyB

Hey Mark!

So, the H4MIDI WC (https://www.cme-pro.com/h4midi-wc-usb-host-midi-interface/) 'off the shelf' doesn't have the WIDI/Bluetooth component. I also added the optional "WIDI Core" chip (https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-core/) which turns the H4MIDI from just a physical MIDI hub into a physical+WIDI/BT hub.

BTW, if the idea of pulling apart a box and plugging in a chip sounds a bit nerve wracking, don't worry. It's a socketed chip that you quite literally just plug in.
Scott Uhl did a great video on the H4MIDI and documented the WIDI Core chip install (along with some important tips) here is case you want to see what is involved - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGvjCm2u2I&t=293s

On a sidenote, CME just released the H12MIDI Pro https://www.cme-pro.com/h12midi-pro/ but it doesn't have WIDI/BT built in which completely baffles me... you can hang a WIDI Jack off one of the outputs to add a WIDI interface, but that decision just seems messy to me, but it will work.

For the USB MIDI connection to the CQ18, yes, direct connection to the iPad and ST should 'see' it as a MIDI device via the USB is my understanding (someone using a CQ18 might want to weigh in in case I'm incorrect).

Which then leads us to the old 'how to connect all these things to the iPad' problem.

Now, there will always be some debate about the reliability of official Apple adapters vs 3rd party adapters. Problem is Apple don't have the specific multiple port config I need, so it is a moot point in this specific topic. Anyway, I'm going to park that topic entirely.

My iPad has a Lightning connector (I know you said yours is USB-C) and I've been using 3rd party adapters for years without any issues. They are cheap, so I always carry 3 of them for redundancy.
The one I use has 2 x USB-A and 1 x Lightning port which lets me connect the H4MIDI and my Behringer X32 mixer via the USB ports, and power the iPad via the Lightning port. I think this is the one I use - https://www.amazon.com.au/Certified-Lightning-Converter-Charging-Splitter/dp/B08THGX7G2

This looks like the USB-C equivalent - https://www.amazon.com.au/WASRUYI-Adapter-iPhone-Samsung-MacBook/dp/B0DPSNCMBN

Again, other folks using USB-C based iPads might be able to chime in with a specific recommendation they are using successfully. Some folks also use powered USB hubs which can provide even more flexibility. The 3 port adapter has been fine for me and I like that I can also secure everything with velcro ties when I have the iPad on a mic stand tablet holder so that that connectors aren't bearing any weight or pressure (less risk of damage in long term or having them pop out mid-gig).

Just for reference, this is my current setup:

I'm also quite risk adverse, so I have documented 'fallbacks' for individual and multiple end-point WIDI devices failing (or getting broken/lost). I also have a CME WIDI Thru6 BT in my kit bag for these 'disaster scenarios'.

So far, all of the gig/rehearsal setup issues encountered over the last 2 years have been human error:

Me leaving BT enabled on an iPad that I had paired with the CME WIDI devices to perform configuration and updates (the BT connection will take precedence over the configured WIDI 'network').
A guitarist (no longer on the diagram as we have let him go..), despite claiming he hadn't touched anything, had unplugged his WIDI Master from his Helix and plugged it back in the wrong way around (mixed up In and Out).
All 10 sec fixes once I worked out what the problem was.

So, touch wood, but the equipment itself is pretty reliable and dependable. That said, I hate anything made of plastic that is on or near the ground.. it is begging for a drummer or vocalist to tread on it on a crowded stage because they aren't looking where their feet are!

I would say the part of the setup that throws me the odd curve ball is the iPad and the devices connected directly to it, e.g.

The way iOS refuses to detect things plugged into it while it isn't unlocked as a security precaution
The way iOS enumerates USB connected devices - it sometimes gets confused/overwhelmed if multiple things are plugged in at the same time, or if they are powered on after you connect it. So I tend to be quite methodical about power up all devices before connecting the adapter to the iPad, and sometimes I have to unplug each device from the adapter, and reconnect it, just to re-trigger USB enumeration.

So, while a little annoying, I've experienced it enough times to know that it is a 20 sec fix if I encounter it.

One last point about CME - they are an amazing company to deal with and they also engage directly via the CME Facebook group. When I was first designing this MIDI/WIDI setup, I watched all the videos, but still wasn't 100% sure my design was 'right' (USB MIDI and Host concepts still throws my old-school head for a loop).
So the first version of the diagram (all done in Microsoft PowerPoint) I made I emailed through to CME. I made sure I was clear on requirements, what devices need to send/receive, etc. The CTO in Singapore replied within a few hours, having added comments to my design, confirming/answering all my assumptions and questions, etc. So I send back a revised version 2. diagram which he confirmed would meet all of my documented goals, and that gave me a confirmed shopping list. I get most of their stuff from Amazon as the prices are generally lower than most of my local suppliers and they seem to have everything in stock so I receive it same, or next, day.

Cheers,
Anthony

MarkGuitar

AnthonyB
Wow, awesome help there @AnthonyB

Thank you. My H4 arrived today so tomorrow I will be attempting to set that up with my Master peripherals.

“Keep me covered, I’m going in!’

Thanks for your help.