Midi File Playback…

Skid

Hi Peter, I get the idea that ST3 is generally a SMPTE/audio stem system rather than a BarBeat/Midi file player.

Would s there a way to load a midi file with notes rather than cc messages?

The reason is with the ability to setup loops within a song makes this a live performance powerhouse and midi song files would be another great way to perform.

Maybe a companion app?

Damir

Skid I was a heavy user of midi years ago and have converted to audio backing because of the looping ability of ST and its tempo/speed control while performing , these are the only things that kept me using midi for a much longer time.
Why I don’t want midi playback introduced in to ST3.
Audio backing is much faster to create without too much knowledge and it sounds more realistic if created by real instruments and players.
Having two methods of backing would bloat the software and make it confusing for lots of people that don’t understand midi.
At this moment the only disadvantage of audio backing is the ability to simply jump from any part of a song to another position in a song on the beat , you can only jump from the end of a loop which sometimes is limiting, yes i agree, but it’s very doable and works great if you break your songs up in smaller segments , in actual fact it’s easier on the performer as it is more predictable to him and the audience doesn’t know any better , yes if the audio had beat recognition this could be more flexible to the performer but it would also be more stressful as you could accidentally jump to wrong new positions and making the show sound unprofessional.
There are many more reasons I could get in to but it’s time to stop, yes I use midi in my studio while creating backing audio but I don’t see the need to complicate ST3,4 let’s make the audio method work as best as we can and keep it simple and as easy to use on stage which is the main goal of this software.

AnthonyB

Skid Peter has already said that ST4 will be able to import MIDI files to replicate a lot of the functionality we currently have related to sending MIDI in ST3 lyrics.

That said (and Peter to confirm/clarify), I don't believe the goal is to turn it into a MIDI file player where you also have virtual instruments (or I guess hardware via a MIDI interface) and use ST3 essentially as a 'MIDI playback DAW'. I believe it will still be focused on the MIDI automation (PC, CC, etc.) of other devices and apps.

peter

@AnthonyB Is correct. MIDI file playback will be one of the features in version 4 but it will not play your midi files with a soundfont like a sound module. It will just send the midi through one of your midi ports. So it is meant as a way to simplify for example light show programming which might contain quite a lot midi commands. Of course the app will not stop you sending it to a sound expander but that's not the primary use case.

DuskDave

Hi Peter,

Is there any expected effect (positive or negative) on the timing accuracy of MIDI commands played as a file in ST4 compared to those written in the lyrics in ST3?

Will it sync to the audio any better or worse?

AnthonyB

DuskDave timing accuracy of MIDI commands

Ooh, that's an interesting question!
That's made me stop and think about MIDI 'resolution, the setting in my DAW (in my case, I set all MIDI files to 960 ticks per quarter note for highest resolution), the resolution in ST3, and whether I need to think about the relationship between all this?

In my case, in my DAW where I create all of my backing tracks (including manage all the device MIDI automation), I set all MIDI files to 960 ticks per quarter note for highest resolution.

In ST3, we have MIDI command timing resolution down to 1ms.

If I have a song at 120bpm, my DAW at 960 ticks per quarter note resolution, and I have two MIDI commands 1 tick apart, then that is basically 1ms apart.
If they are 10 ticks apart - 5ms.
100 ticks apart - 52ms
Note: the ms value is rounded in my DAW (Cakewalk Sonar) which is why it's isn't perfectly linear

Does ST4 need a lower resolution (i.e. 1/10th of a ms)? Personally, I don't see a need.
Is that even technically possible? 🤷

MIDI was never a 'fast' protocol. It was never designed to be. I have some devices really struggle to accept MIDI commands with less than 10ms between each command (i.e. some just get dropped/not processed). So I've always tested how tight I can make timing of consecutive MIDI commands with devices (and then eased off a bit) so I know a device's approx. fastest MIDI command acceptance capability. I then factor that in on a per device basis when I have to send a bunch of MIDI automation messages in a very tight time window.

DuskDave

AnthonyB
Most MIDI stuff for PCs or DMX doesn't need to be anything like accurate but there is one exception.
Before I moved to ST3, I ran drum and bass backing off a sequencer which maybe didn't sound as good as the actual bass recordings I now use on ST3 but the MIDI commands to activate loopers were much more precise, timing-wise: I could record a 2-bar guitar phrase at the beginning and only have to correct it by restarting maybe once or twice over a 3-minute song.
I have had to incorporate the inherent 'variability' in the timing of ST commands by recording longer phrases and stopping and restarting them much more frequently, which is messy but workable.
I suppose if the time syncing between mp3 and MIDI were to get worse then I'd just have to forego the upgrade to ST4. On the other hand, if it were to tighten things up slightly then that would be a bonus.

peter

Accuracy should be a bit better but only regarding timing within the midi file. The midi player runs seperate from the audio players so all players seek to the same timestamp and start at the same time but from then on the timing is independent. This is challenging in regards to loops. I don't have it working yet, but the way loops work will lead to timing fluctuations at the loop point. But I don't have any details yet.