Lyrics Only FEEDBACK

Damir

Hi all, I have a gig coming up where I only need lyrics only no chords no backing so I decided to create a 12 song list with Lyrics Only which I have never used ST3 that way , I was very disappointed in a number of things when using my iPhone 16 pro max 512gb , all I needed was to be able to jump to any song quickly and finger control the lyrics to move to any part of the lyrics , this is the most basic way of operating , nothing fancy or automated.
What I found very frustrating was,
If you double tap on any song to select it , it automatically plays through it for 3 minutes , this is not what I want as I don’t know how long I am going to be using this lyric and every gig might vary in requirement , so I don’t want this, I am running very basic.
Then to top it off if I go back to select my next song choice it does not allow me to if the now song is playing , this appears to be a bug and very limiting as I have to stop the now playing song first.
All I want is to select my song see the lyrics without any automation scroll manually through the lyrics see my next song and if I choose to change my next song get back to my now needed lyrics and hit XFade to go to my newly selected lyrics without pressing any more buttons.
This is the most basic way to run, ST3 does not allow me to do this SIMPLY.
Another issue is if I have longer lyrics and need to quickly finger scroll to the end I simply should be able to swipe up strongly and the lyrics should scroll up to the end of lyrics , this happens now except the end of lyrics shoot up to the top of page , this is useless as I loose all my other lyrics I need , this needs to be made so the end of lyrics always stop at the bottom of the screen so we can safely strong swipe having the confidence you won’t loose any lyrics as most songs can fit on two screen sizes so a simple finger gesture on the screen confidently gets you to the end of lyrics.

Another frustration is easily getting to song select page since there is not enough space in portrait mode to have both screens and this mode is best for lyrics display, when you are in text mode a simple swipe to left and right would be a more user friendly way of choosing next song changes or just quickly selecting a next song last moment decision. Having to think is it top or bottom of screen I need to tap is bad logic not only that it is difficult to hit the right spots under pressure to simply choose a different lyric.
Lyrics only should be very simple to use on iPhones especially because they are the most likely devices to be used for this as they are small enough to look good on stage yet big enough to do the job at a near distance.
I have mine mounted on my accordion top right side using glue tack which grips it nicely to the accordion and a simple finger operation on it , but I found ST3 software in this basic operation very frustrating only because of its small logic mistakes which I never picked up before as I was never a Lyrics Only fan for numerous reasons I won’t get in to now.
Hope this makes sense Peter I have probably forgotten some other little things but these ones are major frustrations I found when using ST3 in its very basic mode.
Cheers Damir
SORRY!
To add, how I would like to operate.
In song select mode , single touch of any song selects its lyrics, the play button is not needed as I don’t have a time selected , it actually becomes a next song select button so if I don’t want to have the next song in the list pressing this button allows me to enter song list and choose the next song selection pressing the same button again after a selection of next song gets me back to now needed text with the new next song ready to hit XFade to choose the next song, if in lyrics screen a swipe to the right on screen gets me to song select mode and allows me to hit any song choice and immediately jumps to that song lyrics screen , this allows us to immediately change to new song , while using the play button it allows us to setup a next song quickly and then use the XFade to select it immediately when needed, if you simply use XFade every time you are sequentially moving through the playlist as you programmed it.
If you select a time in the lyrics only song then the logic diverts back to as is now but it should give you an option to either automatically start play or not depending on you selection within this song.
This way you start of with absolute basic mode of operation to a more automated mode if needed.
The automated mode is not a good way to go as you haven’t got good control of when the text ends compared to your live playing, so I would prefer to run very basic when using lyrics only because I have full control of what I need to, but this is only possible if ST3 allows me to do that , at the moment it does not.
Also I would allow remotes to simply screen page up down so you can easily progress through all the lyrics.

AnthonyB

Damir If you double tap on any song to select it , it automatically plays through it for 3 minutes , this is not what I want as I don’t know how long I am going to be using this lyric and every gig might vary in requirement , so I don’t want this, I am running very basic.

On this point, I suspect that is because many people use Lyric only songs to have a lyric page auto-scroll without having any audio backing track to define duration and tempo.
I believe (@Peter to confirm) setting the song duration (which default to 3:00min) and tempo (defaults to 120bpm) factor into when the lyric sheet will start scrolling after you hit Play on a Lyric song.

Then, double-tapping triggering Playback - I've never seen that. I had to go into the Settings -> Playback to find an option Double Tap to Start (https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/settings/#double-tap-to-start). Mine is disabled which I suspect is default (then again, maybe I turned it off), and something you may have enabled at some stage?

Damir

AnthonyB yes I know all this but I do want double tap to be active on all my other songs I use with backing , I just don’t want an instant 3 minute timer and an immediate start on my Lyrics Only songs as a default because firstly I don’t need a timed scroll secondly by having this forced upon me I need to stop layback before looking for another song otherwise I can not select another song , it just does not work logically if I don’t want auto scrolling involved , I just want a simple lyrics screen where I can foot control to move up or down the full screen to choose at my own time where I want to go in the song lyrics , because I am playing the accordion and singing I can then move were and when I choose without being controlled by the software.
I also need quick selection of songs that allows me to just jump to the song selection area chose a new song and have my lyrics pop up immediately without having to stop playback that I did not want in the first place.
So the best way around this is just let us run simply first and let us choose do we want automation involved.
My suggestion is to also make the play button be useful in simple mode to be a quick next song selector instead of a play button as it has nothing to play, this way if you swipe right on the screen you have immediate choice of next lyrics and if you go through the play button you can setup a next song and have it waiting for you to finish you live performance and by hitting XFade it just jumps to your pre determined song . If you then keep on using Xfade it just jumps sequentially through your playlist .
This gives you full easy and fast control of 3 different options and they are all fast and easy to do on the run.
It makes a lot more sense than being locked in to one way of operating which isn’t all that accurate anyway and forces you to stick to the pre programmed time,
Lyrics only normally means you need to be able to be free to perform, all you need is lyrics to be there as quickly as possible at all times nothing else matters.

Here is a scenario, I am playing accordion and a large group of people are singing with me we almost get to the end of one song and someone starts singing another song which I easily follow with the accordion I know the first verse but I don’t remember the rest , I should be able to swipe right on the screen choose this songs lyrics and either finger scroll to the place I need to continue singing or take over with foot control to move through the lyrics screens,
This is total flexibility.
This is what LYRICS ONLY SHOULD BE ABOUT.

peter

Simple solution: set the duration to 0. No more play button and no more double tap to start playback on that song.

Damir

peter Simple solution: set the duration to 0. No more play button and no more double tap to start playback on that song.

That’s the problem I want to get to the lyrics quickly , I simply want to double tap on the song to get to the lyrics by disabling a time you remove an operation I really need.
I should not be disadvantaged by not needing a time.
The operation of exposing lyrics should be easy and consistent.
Entering a Duration is awkward and complicated , we are musicians not computer geniuses that can convert instantly that 3:30 minutes equals a number of 210 that should be entered , the software tells us, enter DURATION and make sure you have a calculator handy 😂, if you need 3:17 min and seventh seconds.This is bad.
Peter I am just pointing out things that need fine tuning.
And my previous suggestions are meant to improve on stage operation which to me is the most important thing, there is no point in bloating the settings if on stage operation is clunky.
I am reasonably happy with ST3 the way it is from the way I normally run as a solo performer using backup stereo files needing Lyrics and chords , you have done a great job there, but when it comes to Lyrics only users point of view I think the software is not as smooth to operate as it should be , the aim is to minimise awkward unnecessary finger tapping to get what is needed , I like how simple and easy is to just copy and paste lyrics in to ST3 and create a lyrics only song but I don’t like the way we are forced to tap dance around to get to the songs lyrics and back to select new lyrics , if you read carefully all my previous suggestions are aimed to remove the awkwardness and improve operation when using ST3 in its most basic way.
Lyrics only should be the simplest way to use ST3.
Getting to lyrics should be as simple as double tap on a song with no time settings, moving around the lyrics should be either by finger slide up down or by remotes by screen up down , selecting new song by swipe right on lyrics shows you songs , a double tap on song opens lyric, using Xfade or play button jumps to next song in line order of playlist , as I suggested before Xfade acts as a select next song in line and the play button allows you to choose a next song in line in case you change your mind to what next song should be if you use this button by pressing it immediately jumps to song view and back so you only use this if you need to change the order of existing playlist it’s only there for quick changes of next song needs and could be use as you are performing the existing song as it needs to be very quick and easy to jump out of lyrics select next and jump back , as you finish the now performing song hit XFADE and this new next song gets inserted , the next time you press Xfade it remains to where you were in the playlist and just continues as normal , so the play button becomes a quick insert of a song.
The play and XFade buttons can be visually customised to suit its operation as it is not a XFade anymore but just a next song selector.
This type of simple operation is what I expect from a bit of software that handles lyrics only , this is what makes a lyrics only song worth while compared to normal backing track operation , otherwise there is no point of having it.
There are multiple ways ST3 is used the software needs to be streamlined to suit all different needs.
Multitrack is another, as an example.

Damir

peter Simple solution: set the duration to 0. No more play button and no more double tap to start playback on that song.

By doing that it changes the logic of the double tap , it doesn’t work anymore, so this is not a simple solution.
I want to access the lyrics immediately by double tapping on a song but I don’t want an automated time roll.
I simply want the Text to remain in place and I want to move it manually by finger or screen shift up or down by remote if there is more data outside this view.
I don’t want to be locked in to the software automation in any way, I want full manual control and easy access of lyrics and song selection on the iPhone.

AnthonyB

Damir ntering a Duration is awkward and complicated , we are musicians not computer geniuses that can convert instantly that 3:30 minutes equals a number of 210 that should be entered , the software tells us, enter DURATION and make sure you have a calculator handy 😂, if you need 3:17 min and seventh seconds.This is bad

Huh? I'm not sure why you think you need to convert these to seconds.
If I want a lyric only song to be 2 min and 17 sec, I enter 2:17 and hit Return.

Damir

AnthonyB Thats because you are use to the method ST3 forces you to work.
I am pointing out it is not the best way, yes as you start as a blank canvas if you hit 3 it just adds it at the end of the time , this is wrong, it should immediately use it as 3 seconds so when you enter a 0 it should become 30 seconds if you then enter a 1 it should become 3 minutes and 10 seconds and as you enter a 7 it should become 3 minutes and seventeen seconds achieving a fast result without having to fiddle around placing your finger in a tight hard to select spot to make an entry , it simply creates the result you expect .
People don't expect to have to select the place where they need to make an entry, when they get presented with a numeric keyboard they expect to be able to use it immediately and get results.
To avoid confusion, at least the keyboard entry should be disabled unless you choose a spot in the timer section , there is no point giving us entry of data if it just tacks on at the end an unwanted result.
Less stuffing around and immediate result is whats needed.

Damir

AnthonyB Huh? I'm not sure why you think you need to convert these to seconds.
If I want a lyric only song to be 2 min and 17 sec, I enter 2:17 and hit Return.

I don’t want to convert anything , this is my point.
Try this, clear the time, now touch the time to enter a new time , a keyboard opens now simply type 217 which you expect to be 2 minutes 17 seconds, you will see that is not the end result , what you get is 3:37 seconds , this is wrong .
I don’t want to nurse the time entry I simply want to enter 217 and enter this should leave me with 2:17 seconds.
I don’t want to touch the time area after I select it once and I don’t want to search for : to make the time correct I expect the software to simply understand my time requirement with me doing minimal brain and finger work, I think that’s what computers are about , I want it to work for me not make me work for it because it lacks thought.

AnthonyB

Damir Thats because you are use to the method ST3 forces you to work.
I am pointing out it is not the best way, yes as you start as a blank canvas if you hit 3 it just adds it at the end of the time , this is wrong, it should immediately use it as 3 seconds so when you enter a 0 it should become 30 seconds if you then enter a 1 it should become 3 minutes and 10 seconds and as you enter a 7 it should become 3 minutes and seventeen seconds achieving a fast result without having to fiddle around placing your finger in a tight hard to select spot to make an entry , it simply creates the result you expect

I understand what you are saying, and I partially agree with it.

Playing around with the Duration field a bit more, I can see that it facilitates 2 forms of input:

Enter a value in MM:SS (including entering the colon) and what you enter is what you get. Simple.
Enter any numeric value and it treats that as a value in seconds, and then converts that to MM:SS, or HH:MM:SS. E.g. you enter 180 (i.e. 180 seconds) and that gets converted to 3:00 (i.e. 3 minutes 0 seconds). Enter 1111111 and you get 308 Hours, 38 Minutes, and 31 Seconds. OK, not what I was expecting either... but... OK...

I understand that you'd like that field to have a default mask of MM:SS and as you enter numbers, it fills it from right to left. Yep, I'd tend to agree that that makes more sense to me than entering 3 digits and finding it was treated as seconds and then converted.
You had me on board right up until "...and as you enter a 7 it should become 3 minutes and seventeen seconds".
So what you are implying is that a 4th digit entry automatically changing the rightmost value in 'SS', is that no song can be more than 9 minutes. because you are implying that if you have entered 3:17 and then enter "0" then value should change to "3:10" rather than 31:70 (which yes, also doesn't work in this example, but assume the starting entry was 3:12 for the sake of argument). You're logic on how it should work actually limits the values you can enter.
I mean, sure, OK, you can agrue "How many people are going to have songs greater than 10 mins" just because it is uncommon. Maybe someone out there is playing Prog Rock, or long trance remixes, and all the songs are 10+ minutes long! ;-)

Damir

Hi Peter just to add to the iphone lyrics only feedback,
Another reason i would like a swipe to right gesture on the lyrics instead of the confusing TOP / BOTTOM area which i can never work out which to hit when bouncing back and forth , it is very easy to trigger unwanted windows because the iphone is a smaller surface and you have all the function selection buttons just above when song mode is exposed , this brings up unwanted windows at the most inconvenient times , this area is also not labeled so new combers will have no idea how to get back to the lyrics screen , if you disable a duration on a song disables double tapping that brings you back to lyrics making it impossible to return unless you have read the instructions that the bottom of screen is the place to tap.
It might work for us old users but it definitely will confuse new combers and if they are like me that don't feel as though they should need to read instruction as the software should be easy to navigate they are in trouble.
Perhaps add all functions under EDIT giving us more space to see song select area as we dont need these functions when we are performing anyway , and it reduces chances of accidentally bringing up unnecessary windows and reduces clutter on screen , and reduces confusion between the two function screens , i rather have two lines of functions in edit mode than a mixed bag of functions in two areas that get effected badly when performing.
At least place a label on the bottom of screen so we can see where we need to hit to get back to the other screen.
Here is an idea , if you are playing a song means you are performing, you don't need EDIT , this should be disabled , all functions should be in edit mode , when you select EDIT it means you are not performing , get rid of the play button area and only give us all editing functions and setup functions.
Once we are done we exit Edit and we now get our play function area and a much cleaner work area.
At the moment we have clutter on screen we don't need when performing.
A simpler and fast way to get to lyrics and back to song select.

Damir

AnthonyB I understand that you'd like that field to have a default mask of MM:SS and as you enter numbers, it fills it from right to left.

No, I don’t mind any kind of better solution so we don’t have to do maths or fiddle with placing the cursor to change or input the time , whatever works better than what we have now, there must be a better solution .
I rather type in the time and if it’s wrong hit the x and type again than the way we have it now , it’s just not practical especially on smaller screens.
Let’s say I want 60 minutes , just hit 6000 and it’s done if you need 3 hours and 5 minutes and 32 seconds , type 30532 and you are done, it ends up 03:05:32.
Simple.
3 minutes =300
3 seconds =3
33 seconds =33

This to me is logical and immediate all you do is hit the time area and type in a logical figure like 324 means 3 minutes 24seconds,
1010 means 10 minutes and 10 seconds.
It just logical to the brain
101010 means 10 hours 10 minutes and 10 seconds , how much simpler can it be to type in and if you fluff up just delete the entry and put in the new figures that make sense.
Basically the time gets loaded from left to right with the numbers that are logically in your head and entered with the keyboard.
The keyboard can only enter allowed numbers for the appropriate time slots so you can not use numbers that don’t belong 99999:59:59 the timers
So you have maximum hours of whatever is possible.
Maximum minutes of 59
Maximum seconds 59
Forget about computer logic , think about operators logic.

Damir

AnthonyB You had me on board right up until "...and as you enter a 7 it should become 3 minutes and seventeen seconds".

Yes I might have not got that correct, what I was trying to point out is as you enter numbers they don’t fill the time spaces they just get added to the end and then suddenly become a time you don’t expect as you hit enter, you basically need to place the cursor in the correct position then enter a figure , this is very awkward and annoying specially on smaller screens.
Keyboard entry should be smart and easy .

Damir

More feedback on Lyrics Only .
Things on screen that are not used by Lyrics Only should not be clattering the screen , only useful on stage functions for that mode should be shown making efficient use of screen space creating a much nicer on stage experience especially on small screens devices..
I am hoping ST4 is going to have a much better approach when using Lyrics Only , I was hoping to have all my songs also available as LYRICS ONLY so when I don’t need backing I can just easily use Lyrics only.
I give Lyrics only 6/10 as is , it’s usable but needs polish.
I know this feedback is very late but I only started using Lyrics only recently as I did not need it at the beginning .
I was hoping others would help to streamline it that have greater use for it, this applies to multitrack.

peter

Version 4 will not have lyrics only songs. There will be only songs. Whether you add audio tracks to them and how many is plainly up to you. No matter how many tracks you add, lyrics & pdf handling will always be the same.

Damir

peter Version 4 will not have lyrics only songs. There will be only songs. Whether you add audio tracks to them and how many is plainly up to you. No matter how many tracks you add, lyrics & pdf handling will always be the same.

Thanks Peter, I was aware this is the way we are heading and it sounds good , I hope it will be streamlined in a way so if you only have lyrics the song type only provides things necessary for that mode and leaves everything not needed out of our faces , and for this to apply to the other 2 modes, at the moment ST3 is great for stereo tracks but not so great with Lyrics only, and Multitrack operation is not user friendly enough to justify using it , although as a stereo user I would use it for its live control of tracks when performing , this would justify the big change, at the moment multitrack is great for bands to select which tracks are needed which is a select and forget thing , but for solo artists that don’t need this we rather have immediate control of tracks while performing so we can create different moods on the run , this is where we would benefit mainly from multitracks , easy transfer from the DAW in to ST3 and back is also something that is needed, so I hope ST4 is heading that way , I am pretty sure there will be lots of improvements coming so I’m looking forward to it,
Keep up the good work Peter.