Start Playback Action, to NOT transfer to next song

MrReezz

Is it possible to have the "Start Playback" Action, (set up in Assign Actions), to NOT transfer to next song, when the said song has completed, and is at the end?

Context: When my RC600 device begins, it sends a midi signal to ST3 to Start Playback of the selected song. On occasion, using the RC600, i will do a full stop and restart during the song. If the Song on ST3 has finished and is sitting at the end, and the RC600 does a stop/start, ST3 transfers to the next song.
It seems the "Start Playback" action kind of has a 2nd function, that described above, and it would be ideal if this could be switched off. Or am i missing something, or another way to achieve this?

I use the "Next Song" action separately, when I want to switch to the next song, which works great.

peter

Yes, you can turn off Settings > Playback Settings > Autoload Next Song.

MrReezz

peter Hi Peter, thanks for the reply. Autoload is definitely turned off. This is a slightly different action to the autoload. The next song only loads when the song is at the end, and the "Start Playback" function is done. As mentioned, this then loads the next song, and thus triggers the midi signals at the beginning of the next song also.

So the next song is loading when i don't want it to, and Autoload definitely turned off. I recheck this many times.

If you could have a look at this particular circumstance would be much appreciated.

peter

I just checked. When the Autoload setting is off, there is no "Next Song" indicator in the song list and when a song finishes playing, playback just stops at the end of the song. No new song is loaded. You then have to select the next song manually. What do you mean by this:

The next song only loads when the song is at the end, and the "Start Playback" function is done.

What is the "Start Playback" function? Do you mean the play button?

MrReezz

It is "Start Playback" in the Assign Actions category of Remote Control, in Settings.

I have taught ST3 to begin playback (Start Playback), via a midi sent signal, which is logged in ST3 (in the Assign Actions) as "MIDI START".
With this, i can begin a song on my RC600, by simply hitting any footswitch on the RC600, and this begins the playback on the corresponding ST3 song (mostly lyrics to scroll). This is brilliant, and makes it incredibly easy to coordinate the 2 units.

As mentioned earlier, the only issue is that if the song on ST3 has finished (e.g. lyrics have scrolled to the end and stopped), and i am still playing the same song on the RC600, and i do a Stop/Start on the RC600 (which often happens for effect, having a short break of 1 or 2 beats in the song etc), then this triggers the ST3 to jump to the next song. The next song on ST3 does not start playing yet, however the midi instructions in that next song, (e.g. [midi: PC49@2]) are sent to the RC600, which then sets it onto the next song also.

Ideally what I require is for the mentioned Assign Action of "Start Playback", to only do that, Start playback, and do nothing else. So if the song on ST3 is at the end, then nothing happens, as it is at the end.

I hope this makes sense, and thank you for taking the time to reply and attempt to understand this issue, I do appreciate it greatly.

peter

This logic is intentional. If you are at the end of a song pressing start will progress to the next as a shortcut to select the next song in the playlist so that you don't have to map an extra command to get to the next song. That's also the behaviour of the play button.

Damir

peter This logic is intentional. If you are at the end of a song pressing start will progress to the next as a shortcut to select the next song in the playlist so that you don't have to map an extra command to get to the next song. That's also the behaviour of the play button.

Hi Peter, yes that logic is great for songs that are done with completely but sometimes even though the backing track part is done you might keep on performing the song live as the crowd is still heavily involved in it , I think what the suggestion is to stay on the lyrics and all midi commands on the existing song until you hit START again this means you are done with the last song and then everything’s get reset for the new song , that way you can keep on performing the last song till the cows come home to please the audience but still have the fast ability to start the next song.
I don’t use midi commands to change anything so it does not bother me at all the way it is but some songs I do wish the lyrics would stay there as I do extend the song without backing but it automatically chooses the next song lyrics which is not great.
Perhaps an easy choice to select which mode you need per song just like auto select.
Can anyone suggest a good work around?

Just had a thought!
What if you gave us a setting option where we can choose to run this way,
Option 1 as default have it as is,
Option 2 when the song comes to an end it stays on this song with all midi settings as they are but gives us the quick start only capability on the play button and remote starts, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE FIRST START COMMAND GETS US TO THE NEXT SONG BUT DOES NOT START THE SONG THE SECOND PUSH ACTUALLY STARTS THE SONG, this way we get to stay on the existing song the next start push then gets us to the same mode as option 1 and one more push on the start get us up and running with the next song.
This mode of operation might suit some people much better , I must admit I might use option 2 myself even though I don’t use midi because it gives me freedom and control to do things on stage I did not have before , I was forced to do what ST3 was doing instead of ST3 doing what I need at that time.

peter

Damir, I think you did not understand the way the Autoload next song option works. It behaves exactly like you describe: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/settings/#autoload-next-song

Damir

peter Damir, I think you did not understand the way the Autoload next song option works. It behaves exactly like you describe: https://stagetraxx.com/user-guide/settings/#autoload-next-song

I totally understand the way auto load feature works, I don’t think you understand what we are trying to explain to how it might be slightly changed to achieve a different way of running.
Yes when the feature is enabled the song ends and loads the next song ready for a new start, this is fine.
But what we are saying we would not want the midi data to change to a new song or the lyrics screen to get of the now played song as we are still engaged with this song but we want the next song to be ready by pressing start to then activate all new midi settings and change of lyrics and then with another tap on the start actually start the next song, the idea is the now playing song is not disabled until we hit start twice ,
Why! Because we don’t want to exit the finished song as we are improvising at the end of the song and don’t want sound changes or lyrics changes to occur , and one we are completely done with this song a single tap on start loads the new song settings and another tap on the start starts the new song, , this gives us freedom to stay with the existing song as long as we need yet gives us an easy way to cue up the next song a start it when we need.
This is something ST3 can’t do now it’s either it loads the next song or it does not.
With this way of operating it gives us an easy way to control exactly what we want without having to work too hard.
Basically it gives us a double tap start control of start instead of a single tap , the double tap way is it simply stays with the old song and waits to hit start twice to start the next song , the reason for this is the first hit loads all the midi data and presents the lyrics and the second hit actually starts the song.

peter

That's exactly what happens when autoload next song is disabled. The song finishes and you remain on that finished song. When you then press play, the next song is loaded and displayed. And then you have to press play another time to start it.

Damir

peter wow! I did not know that.
I always had it setup to auto load my next song I will have to try it the other way as it might suit me better.
Sorry for not playing around with settings to try things out, I’ve been happy with it as is but sometimes wished it did not auto load but than again most of the time I like the auto load so I will have to make a decision after I try it out.
Thanks Peter.

Damir

peter That's exactly what happens when autoload next song is disabled. The song finishes and you remain on that finished song. When you then press play, the next song is loaded and displayed. And then you have to press play another time to start it.

Hi Peter, I think I found a BUG.
That’s why I probably didn’t realise how the logic worked when you turn off auto load next song.
When you turn this off in settings and you choose the next song the actual song gets chosen but it DOES NOT TURN YELLOW which is my next song selection colour, I just assumed I had to choose the next song after the now playing song finishes but looking at the top song name it actually does select the next song as it appears in the song name window because I have that option enabled.
If I didn’t have this enabled I would not know if I have the correct next song selected because it does not get highlighted, so the only way to discover it is to hit play once then see if you got the correct song than hit play again.
You need to keep the next song highlight working the same in both modes .
I knew there was a reason I used auto select next song.
And that’s why.

peter

That's not a bug but by design. If you don't want to autoload the next song, there is no point in preselecting the next song. You can jump to it when playback finishes. Or am I seeing this wrong?

Damir

peter That's not a bug but by design. If you don't want to autoload the next song, there is no point in preselecting the next song. You can jump to it when playback finishes. Or am I seeing this wrong?

You are definitely seeing it wrong, why would we not want to see the next selected song?
There is absolutely no reason to why you would do that , the only reason we don't want the next song selected is so we can at our leisure complete the now playing song and we don't want our guitar effects to change to the next song settings BUT WE DO WANT TO SEE WHAT IS THE NEXT SONG SELECTION so as we hit START once we are assured that it is the correct song selected , lets say you dont have next song in the song display enabled , how do you now know what song you have coming next as it is not highlighted and you don't have it in you song display so basically you are running blind , this does not work , you definitely have to have the next song highlighted as normal its just not going to be selected automatically till you hit the start once , this then is clear to what is happening and then you press the start again to actually continue , to me this way of running seems to be a bug as it has no advantage it only gives you a disadvantage , thats probably why i never considered using it in that mode as it seemed wrong when on stage.

peter

Thinking about this, I guess you might be right. Not sure though if I will change that in version 3 as this might need bigger changes. But I will definitely consider it for version 4.

AnthonyB

I can see a case for both and I guess it comes down to whether you see a Playlist as something you are going to follow incrementally, or whether it is just a way of curating a list of songs that you might choose to bounce around in.

If you are still largely going to work through your Playlist incrementally, to me it makes sense to still have the next song selected/highlighted so that you know what song will load if you hit Play.

If you are more likely to bounce around a Playlist, maybe as a safety feature to prevent accidently loading of a song (which might have on-load MIDI events), then NOT selecting any song is both more accurate to the way you work (because the next song in the Playlist is not likely to be the next song you play), and safer. When I say safer, if the next song in a Playlist is selected and you accidently hit Play instead of scrolling to another song, then it prevents this. Maybe that is a bit of an Edge case however.

Damir

AnthonyB If you are more likely to bounce around a Playlist, maybe as a safety feature to prevent accidently loading of a song (which might have on-load MIDI events), then NOT selecting any song is both more accurate to the way you work (because the next song in the Playlist is not likely to be the next song you play), and safer. When I say safer, if the next song in a Playlist is selected and you accidently hit Play instead of scrolling to another song, then it prevents this.

Actually that’s the problem it does not prevent this.
You can still select the next song but you just don’t know what song as it does not highlight the next song but it has chosen it to be next and that’s my point .
I think it’s good you can select the next song I just need to see it otherwise I am running blind .
If that’s the case then don’t allow us to select the next song while the now song is active until it stops but that makes no sense either why would you not want to see the next selected song choice , it makes no sense whatsoever, simple fix , just highlight the next song that’s selected the fact it does not switch to it at the end is fine at least we can see to where it’s going to go when we do decide to hit start , while now we have no clue.
POINTLESS LOGIC.

AnthonyB

Damir You can still select the next song but you just don’t know what song as it does not highlight the next song but it has chosen it to be next and that’s my point

Ohhhhhhh... OK, that does not seem good 🙂 That feels like 'pot luck' then if you hit Play!
I would suggest if there is no next song selected, then hitting Play should do nothing.

Damir

AnthonyB I would suggest if there is no next song selected, then hitting Play should do nothing.

I think there there is nothing wrong with the way you have it , just make sure when or if you do choose a next song it then gets highlighted just like normal and the logic should also be if you hit the next highlighted song again it can be disabled , this way you have full control of all options to what is going to happen or the other option is you are fully automated.
So nothing needs to change just give us the next song highlight and the ability to cancle next song selection if needed.